To think family estrangments are very common in England

[Maldon]

I am Irish but lived here many years and it appears people going long term no contact from immediate family members is pretty common here. I can think of 5 people of the top of my head. Is it just me?

That’s not it at all. I don’t doubt that my mother loved me, and I loved her. In fact we very very rarely ever fought. I was conditioned and groomed into being her emotional punch bag, her therapist, her best friend, her everything. She didn’t do that deliberately, she just didn’t know any other way to be.

I don't think it is limited to England.

I think it is just that people are more likely to be open about it these days and also the fact that people are less brainwashed by the idea that you should always stick to your family ties, no matter how toxic/abusive these individuals are.

People are less religious as well so they don't blindly follow the concept that you should respect their elders/parents.

I am no current with my mother and all her side of the family. One of my friends cut contact with her sister after being treated appallingly by her for years and I had a colleague who also had no contact with their family to the point that they could not be pictured online due to safety issues.

It has always been quite common unfortunately as well for people from the LGBTQ+ community to be rejected by their family and having to become estranged when they come out.

The only case in my family was almost 60 years ago - estrangement of siblings after their mother, my great grandmother, died. She rented and left very little - but when her only daughter took the china, crystal, best linen etc and her remaining brothers & sisters in law got nothing, all hell broke loose, followed by complete estrangement. This included crossing over the road to avoid walking past each other. This lasted well over a decade and only eased a little when my great uncle died and his widow walked down the street to my great aunt’s house to tell her her brother had died and invite her to the funeral. I didn’t even know this great aunt existed as my DF sided with his uncle and aunt, who were actually lovely people. I met her at the funeral- when she took the opportunity to berate my DF for not bringing me and DB to see her when we regularly visited our great uncle and aunt. Very sad and very petty all round, but I can only presume the roots of it went back into childhood as my great uncle and his wife were wonderful to me and DB and didn’t come across as the type of people who would cut a sibling off for taking the china tea set.

Of my friendship group, I'd say about 50% of us are NC with one or both parents, but I think we've gravitated towards each other in part because of this, if that makes sense. Various, very valid reasons for going NC - no one has cut contact over an argument or a lack of "give and take" (🙄).

It isn't a class thing either; we're all working class, from one of the most materially deprived areas of the UK.

I think people are increasingly disillusioned with the idea that you should put up with however you are treated by family just because you're related to them, and the idea of found families has become more acceptable - for a few of my friends they've found that through religion; for me it's my amazing in laws - so we're more exposed to people who treat us with that basic dignity and kindness, which makes us realize what we were missing.

It isn't a decision 99% of people enter lightly, and it's painful, anxious and exhausting.

I think that possibly the benefit system which treats everyone as an individual encourages people to go it alone. Rather than relying on family members to help financially etc so you don’t see your future with family, though i accept this is not quite what OP asks.

I don’t think it’s common in real life, only on MN (because people in unusually stressful situations post much more), so yes, I think it’s you.

I think this is very unusual though, and you have probably gravitated towards each other because you are in an unusual situation?

Yeah, I don't think it's that common particularly, and we often laugh about how weird it is that we all became friends (through a shared hobby) and then found out that so many of us are in similar situations contact-wise, but I definitely think that we subconsciously gravitated towards each other. I just feel lucky to have people who "get it".

Yeah I mean why the fuck should you have to have someone like that in your life just because you share DNA? If this was your mum’s mate who’d been at your house and treated you like this people would say she should be in prison and of course you should never see her again. But because it was your mum a bit of abuse is fine and you should get over it.
I mean one way to not have your kids go NC with you is don’t abuse them, don’t take your personality disorders/defects out on them, treat them like actual people, not extensions of yourself and avoid getting into petty slanging matches with their partners as adults. Then you honestly should be fine. Sadly that seems to be too much for many people.

I’m Irish plenty of estrangement in Irish families. Have you seen the stats on child abuse and domestic violence here which I would say are major contributors to family estrangement. Then you have the fights over farms and wills.

I remember back in the day the nuns were big of the vices of the English comparing it to the beauty and innocence of the Irish.

The industrial schools, mother and baby homes, borstals all put paid to those ideas over time didn’t they? We had a deep intense cruel edge to Irish society only a generation ago that led to many an estrangement I’d suspect.

Your first ever post on this site OP?

I doubt that very much.

I think this is very much part of it. In societies with no welfare state the family - and the church - are the support systems so people would accept being treated hideously by them if they felt they had little alternative.

I think there's another thing peculiar to Britain though. It is part of the national psyche (or delusion, depending on your point of view) that the country as a whole is strong and dominant even or especially when isolated - a view formed in the war which still manifests in things like Brexit. Because that mindset always trumps the idea of drawing strength through being a less dominant member of a collective, people will chose themselves over family.

I am English and I can say I know no one who is estranged from any of their family. It was one of the things that really shocked me when I first came on MN. Having said that, it is the behaviours that lead up to it that I find most shocking so I do think sometimes it probably is justified. I'm equally sure, it has always happened but not in such great numbers and not for the same reasons. And, of course, there wasn't MN there to egg people on and sanction it. It's almost been normalised on here.

Its not just on MN two of my friends had big fallouts with siblings. It wasnt patched up on mothers death either. It made me sad however sometimes rift cannot be mended. In one case the sister is always difficult.

I'm sorry but in both your friends' cases, I'd say more fool them for allowing this. Especially the one in therapy, which should have helped them realise, process and take steps towards healing and freedom.

I come from a big family. On one side there were fallings out between the siblings here and there, my uncles and aunts, over the years growing up. On the other side one great aunt had no contact with her daughter, they never reconciled.

And now in my case, I’m in my 50s, my siblings have kicked me out of the family so I don’t get to see anyone. I saw one parent a year ago, but that parent has not visited me for about 8 years now and probably never will due to siblings. My other parent I haven’t seen for over 2 years since they split up with my step parent. So I get a text from one parent once every couple of months and a phone call from the other once a week.

but this is far from normal and irl I don’t tell anyone . Everyone else I know has never had things like this going on and it’s utterly embarrassing and humiliating and I have MH illnesses due to it all.

Also, estrangement has various shades. E.g. my family would not consider me estranged, however my contact with most of them has become minimal.
They haven't said anything outright about it, either think I'm busy with my life or maybe suspect I'm not keen, who knows. I just keep a distance for my own mental wellbeing as I realise how easily childhood dynamics crop back in and bring old feelings to the surface.

I have a son who has estranged himself, suddenly in 2024 he stopped responding to our texts. We miss him a lot, we don’t know where he lives or works anymore. I assume he’s still alive.

I don’t speak to my cousin after she told me to fuck off after she asked me whether she should go to her dad’s funeral or not - I said she should which wasn’t what she wanted to hear.

I don’t speak to my uncle who after my mum’s death financially abused their mother.

I know several people estranged from their adult children. I know there are few people they tell.
my father was estranged from his brother, my grandmother was estranged from her oldest son

Omg everything you wrote is me too. I'm only recently no contact for very very similar reasons. No plans to allow her back into my life though, I hate it but I can't be controlled by my mother when I'm almost 30 lol.

I guess I'm non-contact with one of my sisters, she's in Australia. I will not have her as a friend on facebook, and God help anyone that gives her my phone number, I refuse to be subjected to her drunken bullshit drama anymore.

Oh, I'm not English, but live in England.

You are unlikely to know someone is ND with part of their family, I only found out years into dating someone they had a grandparent who was alive.

Why would anyone assume all families get on.
Just because your related by birth dosent mean everyone will get on and live happy every after.
Family are often the people who hurt you the most.
Chosen friends are better, they are the family you choose for yourself.

Personally, I agree with you.

But cultural and religious programming is very strong.

It's even deeper and more complex than reasons for women not leaving abusive partners and (most) people accept that it's not easy for women to leave those relationships due to being worn down. In my friends' cases, this is literally all they've ever known.