Brother's new girlfriend turning him against our mum

[ThisPithyBird]

I'll try to keep this short. My brother very recently met someone who lives abroad. She has children she can't leave so it was decided he would move there. To live and work in her country they need to get married. This is happening next week and they only met 6 months ago. He has given up his job and put his house on the market and is currently living in her house. They both have kids from previous relationships; he has left his in England.

She hasn't come to visit my parents once - I know it hasn't been very long but they have travelled about a fair bit in that time, so it seems they could have arranged a visit, especially as they're getting married. I also haven't met her. My parents and I are in Scotland and his kids are in England so though she's been here to meet his children it was too awkward to tie a visit in with one to my parents or me. She was supposed to visit my parents with him last month but in the end he came alone (she had a last minute meeting come up, no one mentioned if she could have rescheduled this). We were supposed to be going to their wedding but they have decided now to do a small registry office wedding and because her family can't go she doesn't want any family to come, though my parents offered to go.

On top of this my mum offered them a family wedding ring which my brother took when he visited. She didn't hear anything about it for almost a week, so asked if they liked it. She got a vague answer and wondered if perhaps they felt obligated to take it. So she sent the gf a message saying you don't have to have it, I won't mind. Somehow this got misconstrued as a controlling thing and when I contacted my brother to ask about it, he spewed all this stuff about our mother being controlling and expecting things in return if she helps him. He has leaned on her a lot the last few years as he's been single and struggling with divorce, coparenting and not liking his job. My mum is always there for him, my dad too. They always worry about him and were initially really happy for him to have met someone. So for him to start coming out with all this stuff was shocking. I said we were all hurt we hadn't met her yet and there's no plan to meet either before next year when they say they will do a celebration. (the plan for this keeps changing so I'm dubious) and he was vague about that.

The gf has issues with her own mother and my brother said she was reminded of her behaviour and this triggered her. I am sympathetic to that but she doesn't even know us. He is currently not talking to any of us and we are just baffled by the whole thing. It feels like any time we reach out she will twist it into something negative. It feels like he is being controlled by her and my mum is worried he feels he can't escape, because he's given up his life. I think she needs to step back for a bit because every time she reaches out it seems to be twisted into something controlling. She has said she will always be there for him. What more can we do?

There's nothing you can do. He's a grown man and can blow up his life (is that's what is going on). Just let him know you love him and let him know you'll always be there for him. Support him if this all blows up in his face.

The new girlfriend could be controlling. Or you brother could not like the dynamic with your parents, and she has given him the bravery or insight to no longer accept that. Or they could just be really busy planning a wedding. It's hard to say without more insight.

If they were busy meeting his kids (possibly more of a priority) why could your parents not have travelled to England to meet her and spend time with the grandchildren?

Often people living in different countries will get married quickly to satisfy visa requirements- I don't see that as particularly unusual given the circumstances.

Scam. I have a feeling she is using him and somehow isolating him from his family is part of the plan.

What else do you know about her? I’d do more digging.

I'd concentrate less on negative impressions of a woman you barely now and the fact that your brother is a grown man more than capable of making his own decisions.
He is hardly covering himself with glory in moving to a different country from his own children.

I think you are focusing on the wrong thing here. Your brother is leaving his children to live with a woman he has known for a few months which is much worse than a ring? Your mother should back off, she’s messaging a person she has never met.

Echo the others. This isn’t a problem with your new SIL it’s a problem with your brother.
He’s a grown man totally capable of making up his own mind so even if SIL hates all your guts he is choosing to side with her over you.
I would suggest this is a common dynamic of overlooking brother’s glaring faults because tbh I would be more upset that he was as good as abandoning his own children in England for a shiny new woman than a piece of jewellery.

Really difficult but as others have pointed out, he’s a grown up capable of making decisions, including leaving behind his own children! I think if there’s a problem then it’s him.

Appreciate the responses so far. Absolutely it's my brother's actions that have upset us. I can't feel much about her having never even met her beyond one video call! She came once to meet his kids for the first time - which of course is more of a priority - and my parents didn't want to intrude on that and they weren't invited so I don't think that would have been appropriate. At the time we assumed they'd come to us later or invite us somewhere in the middle perhaps. They've travelled nearer to us before but again we didn't feel we could invite ourselves. The ring itself is not important as such, it's more the worrying response it's caused which makes us a bit concerned. But everyone is right, he's a grown man and we just have to back off. It's hard though as we are close.. or we were.

Yes i agree you are focusing on the wrong thing.

Your brother is in a very vulnerable situation - leaving his own children and going to start a new life in a different country with a woman he hardly knows. And presumably has money from the sale of his home to make him anattractive prospect.

I do think you and your parents should be making it clear you are there to support him if he needs you rather than focusing on perceived grievances against this woman - which are obviously having the effect of driving him further away and into her influence.

You lost me at the part he left his children to move for a new woman overseas.

I would have stopped talking to him at this point never mind missed meet ups and rings and weddings.

His poor kids. You and your family should atop worrying about not havjng a relationship with new SIL and focus your energies on supporting the DC and maintaining their connections with your side of the family while your brother galavants around the world.

This sounds a lot like your brother running away from adult responsibilities than his girlfriend turning him against his family.

Yeah the fact he's dumping his kids and no one is even giving it a second thought was what jumped out to me as well.

I think my concern might be that if it all goes wrong having sold up here he might return with absolutely nothing- no house no money no job and presumably you and his parents will be expected to bail him out.

Sounds awful. What a rubbish father he is to dump his kids. How does he intend to pay for his kids? Your mum will have accept that the ring is gone.

where is she from?

He's lost to her. When it all inevitably goes wrong, he will expect you all to be there for him. Ensuring your parents have access to his kids is what matters. Your brother sounds like a mug.

There is a whole other story with his kids which I didn't want to go into as it's not relevant to this. I will just summarise it - he has a toxic ex partner he attempts to co parent with. Over the years she has turned the kids against him and he's recently had to back right off and just try to have a nice time with them instead of try to counter all the damage she does. (She does things like go on holiday without them without telling my brother who's looking after them etc) School always ring her about anything and he's missed school meetings because no one told him they were happening. Recently the kids have asked to change their name to hers and generally can be really disrespectful to him and repeat bad things she's said about him. My parents always encouraged him to stay close and be involved but recently (before this gf came on the scene) they visited and saw just how awful it was for him. He had a demanding job with long hours so he did his best but any working parent knows how hard the juggle is, plus he had no support when he saw them (he's not from that area) but she has all these people around and doesn't work. For a time when they were younger he saw them every weekend to try to be more involved but it wasn't sustainable as he had no time to do anything for himself. He always pays child support and buys them things they need and that will continue. So for all his faults I won't hear that he is a bad father. He really has tried. The kids are older teenagers now and will be able to travel to visit him if they want to so I don't think that part of it is so unreasonable, though it has all happened so quickly.

They already don't really have access to his kids unfortunately. His ex wife won't allow it and the kids don't want to know now either. My brother is trying to maintain a relationship with them and so far still does have one, so we can only hope that won't change.

You wont like hearing this but you need to stay well out of it. He is a grown man and is entitled to make his own decisions, there is a fine line between concern and controlling and to me it actually sounds the other way around. Your brother may have deeper underlining issues with your parents that you dont know about. I am the eldest of 4 children however I have experienced trauma caused by our parents that my brothers and sister do not even know about because they were either too young to remember or were lucky enough to not have to go through what I did. I cut my parents off a few years ago and my siblings could only see the tip of the iceberg, they cut me off because of it and its the most distressing thing to lose all your family in one swoop. You keep pushing and your brother will push you away. Someone needs to be on his side so if you really care about him you will support his wishes.
Its really unfair to cast judgment on a person you haven't even met. She may well be his saving grace if he has been dealing with overbearing family. If it means that much to you why not you all go and pay them a visit and to meet her instead of waiting on them to pander to you, when they are clearly busy with all they have going on?

I feel I'm getting conflicting advice here. I understand my perception may well be different to his and I am trying to put myself in his shoes. Okay we shouldn't judge someone we've never met, but she has judged my mum and made some hurtful accusations. Also we should back off and leave him to his life, but also go and visit them uninvited - he's only been there a month. I feel like if we did that Mumsnetters would call us 'intrusive'. We don't want them to 'pander' to us, but there have been opportunities to come and visit us and they were invited. This felt reasonable. Not sure I can win here!

Well yes that is part of our concern. We will be here for him because that's what family does. Or ours at least. I'm honestly second guessing everything I write now because I feel someone is going to come and pull it apart! We only hope that despite this weird episode, she is good to him and he is happy, even if he's a bit distant with us from now on. That is all we want. I suppose I know there isn't much else we can do, but I was looking for some sort of support or solidarity. I'm new to Mumsnet and wasn't quite prepared for some of the blunt responses.

Your poor mum. I was in a similar situation many years ago now. My son's first wife tried very hard to turn him against me. I don't really know why, I am not perfect but my son and I have always had a good relationship. I agree with others who say there's nothing you or your parents can do but to be there when/if it all goes wrong. No one can know another person after 6 months. I would say the chances of the marriage failing are pretty high. Let's hope she doesn't have a baby.

pay no heed to some posters, they love to come on a thread and argue that black is white. I suppose it's a kind of sport for them.

My perspective from having seen this with a couple of family members is that he and her have together and fallen in love very quickly.

They have created their own little ’bubble’ and in that bubble anyone who disagrees with them or says something that can be taken the wrong way will be seen as creating a them and us situation.

They will see that everyone else is out to get them and they can only rely on each other - therefore alienating friends and family.

All you can do is be there when they ask (if you have the patience) and hope that they come out of this bubble - or know that your relationship with your brother is going to change if they don’t emerge from this bubble they have created.

As I say, I have seen this happen so my perspective may be slightly skewed towards this - but it sounds similar to how our situations started.

I’m sorry but he is a bad father. A good father doesn’t move countries from his children he barely sees.

Also isn’t it convenient that apparently both women are the bad guys here not your brother.

Ever thought maybe the children formed their own opinions on their dad rather than needing to be poisoned against him. Children asking to change their name is pretty indicative of them not feeling close to him at all and not feeling like his their dad.

and sorry but boohoo he was seeing them every weekend out had to stop because he couldn’t have a life, every night mon - fri and I’m guessing he wasn’t actually with them 24/2 over the weekend. So mum was hardly obstructive letting him have every fun non school day.

As Prince William said about Harry - he's cunt struck