4 yrs for cutting down tree, no jail time for rape

[Barnbrack]

Why are 2 men being given custodial sentences for cutting down a tree when men convicted of rape regularly get suspended sentences.

Is an important tree more important than a random woman! Justice system seems to think so.

It wasn’t bloody sacred!

It was to some people.

It was to most people!

OP this might help you to get some perspective.

High-profile Case: Aldeburgh, East Suffolk (July 2023)

• Defendant: Russell Abrahams, age 62
• Offence: Felling a healthy Turkey oak under a TPO in August 2022
• Penalty:
• £5,500 fine
• £1,302 prosecution costs
• £2,000 court surcharge
• Mandatory tree replacement under a tree replacement notice

£10,000 Fine: South Hams, Devon (March 2024)

• Incident: Removal of two protected trees in woodland under a Woodland TPO (December 2022)
• Penalty:
• £10,000 fine
• £5,000+ legal costs
• Must replant replacement trees southhams.gov.uk

Woodland Mass Pruning: Guiseley, Leeds (Nov 2023)

• Defendant: John Ogden, landowner
• Offence: Removing limbs from ~150 TPO-covered trees (oaks, sycamores, limes, chestnuts)
• Penalty:
• £13,840 combined fines, costs and victim surcharge Leeds Star+2Leeds City Council News+2Yorkshire Post+2

Conservation Area Felling: Totland, Isle of Wight (May 2025)

• Defendants: Timothy Royston-Parry and Kim Stapley
• Incident: Felling nearly 90% of trees in a TPO conservation area (~1000 m²) before March 2023
• Penalty:
• £2,000 fine per defendant
• £2,689.62 each in costs southhams.gov.uk+15Isle of Wight News - Island Echo+15The Guardian+15

Massive Proceeds Order: Poole, Dorset

• Defendant: Neil Davey
• Offence: Felling neighbour’s maritime pine under a TPO to improve his view
• Penalty:
• £75,000 fine
• £50,000 confiscation under the Proceeds of Crime Act
• Contractor (tree surgeon) fined £2,500 plus £3,000 costs The Sun+8acorn-grp.co.uk+8Leading Property Lawyers+8

Wales Forestry Crackdown (Apr 2025)

• Defendant: John Davies (farm contractor)
• Offence: Felling ~140 trees in ancient woodland without licence (not strictly TPO, but within forestry regs)
• Penalty:
• £2,000 fine
• £5,000 legal costs
• £800 victim surcharge Leeds City Council News+2Nation.Cymru+2Yorkshire Post+2

Legal Context & Penalties

• Breaching a TPO under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (s.210) is a criminal offence, punishable by:
• Unlimited fines at Crown Court (Magistrates’ Court capped at £20,000 per tree historically, though Crown Court can go beyond) The Times+15Leading Property Lawyers+15gotelee.co.uk+15
• Confiscation orders under the Proceeds of Crime Act if the land’s value increased from fellingReddit+6Leading Property Lawyers+6gotelee.co.uk+6
• For larger timber volumes, a forestry felling licence under the Forestry Act 1967 is required. Breaching this can also trigger criminal charges and unlimited fines gov.uk+1gotelee.co.uk+1. A nuance exists: trees under a forestry licence may lie outside TPO enforcement depending on volume and location gotelee.co.uk.

Summary Table Offence TypeSample Penalty TPO breach felling healthy oak £5,500 + replacement Woodland TPO felling 2 trees £10,000 + replant Pruning 150 TPO trees £13,840 total Felling neigbour’s pine £75,000 + £50,000 confiscation Illegal felling in woodland £2,000 + costs

This is the norm. The felling of the Sycamore tree was much more complex case and needed a suitable sentence to reflect this.

They should have got far more than 4 years.

I don’t know what rapists get, but they should be punished accordingly too.

Jesus, that is awful. Our neighbour had 15 years worth of child rape imagery on his computer of the worst kind. He got a 12 months suspended sentence, because his mental health wasn't great at the time. At the time! For FIFTEEN years. He was then housed in a small block of flats, in a lovely area, with several young girls under 8, with views of the garden and lots of communal areas. All this when women are jailed for being unable to pay council tax or protesting or being mouthy on public forums. What message is this sending, that pedophilia is forgivable, but poverty isn't?

I'm not 100% here, I heard a journalist explaining the law wasn't written with digital media and photos in mind, it impacts sentences, the law needs to be modernised.
It is disturbing.

You're right. Rape is a form of murder. My friend was raped and she has been robbed of her future. She will always be a woman who was raped. I am sure that she will survive, but she will not be able to erase this event. We should be campaigning for life sentences for rape, sexual assault and domestic violence. The fact that men are given (as they should have been) such a long sentence for cutting down a tree reminds us that the law really only exists to protect the wealthy and their assets.

@ObelixtheGaul I believe that was the worst most shocking episode I ever saw.
The first young lady to report, my heart broke for her, I'm still thinking about her days later, if i met her, I'd tell her, she is a brave beautiful young lady. Thank god she found the strength to report him. I hope she continues to recover. Devastating.

He should never be free.

For those saying ‘ it’s just a tree’ they were convicted of the highest level of criminal damage, aggravated by its impact on a UNESCO World Heritage Site and damage to Hadrians wall.

Who are you to decide?

Was just coming on to say exactly this.
Even the defendants own lawyer admitted the tree would be valued at over £100.000 which put it in the highest level
Everything was further escalated by it being a UNESCO W H site.
It wasn't 'just a tree'. In the same way that rape isn't 'just a bit of Dom sex'.

Just wondering if you realise that the judge in this case was a woman.............

It's not 'just a tree' in a random park, it was a cultural significant tree for that area and beyond. Probably bought in viistors to the area and was 150 years old. I'd say serves them right for a mindless act of idiocy and it's deterrent to anyone else thinking of doing similar.
I agree that rapists should get longer sentences, but that is a completely different matter.

And a fairly high profile female judge @LostFuse who led the inquiry into Jimmy Saville, murder of Star Hobson and the Hillsborough Inquest

Just a lot of old stones, some on this thread are no doubt thinking.

The argument seems to go that since there are injustices against human beings, it is unseemly to care about destruction and vandalism. Given the former are never going away, we may as well stop caring about anything. Fancy scratching your name on the colosseum or defacing an artwork? Go for it!

So you can fined for cutting down a forest in Wales but jail time for a tree in England. Not just any tree…..it’s a special tree”!

absolutely fucking ridiculous - two tier justice

It was part of a UNESCO World Heritage site. That’s considered pretty special.

Your comment doesn’t even make sense

Yes and some rapists get away Scot free due to level of convictions made. Doesn’t say much about society that we value a tree being damaged more than another human being damaged for the rest of their life!

The thing is, they are two different crimes.

We need sentencing for rape to be harsher. Not for petty crimes like this to go unpunished.

Jail terms for rape should be longer and far more common. Violence against women is not taken seriously.

It is right they were jailed for chopping down the tree though. There's too many yobs out there who don't give a care for our environment.

But we don't value criminal damage to a tree more than damage to a human being. Every case is individual.

Exactly they are under very different bits of legislation.

Mrs Justice Lambert is looking to be the judge for the Andrew Tate civil case and looking at her past history (Libby Squires - 27 years for her murder /Marcus Osbourne whole life sentence for murder and crucially 10 years for rape and 10 years for false imprisonment)

so yes her sentence here is commensurate with her sentences for rape and murder (and now and really pleased she is the civil judge for Andrew Tate)

the problem is we don’t have more judges like her (and not enough women!)

I was absolutely gob smacked when I heard this. I appreciate that you can't just go around felling trees because you feel like it,but 4 years does seem a tad excessive, considering rapists get off much more lightly. I think community service would have been more appropriate.