Patriarchy and marriage, how do you do it?

[Cdu2021]

I want to get external opinions and see if I am being unreasonable.

Having previously held several stressful jobs with long hours, I quit my job last year and I am now at home looking after my 6 and 4 year olds (who both go to school). We are in a very lucky financial position where we could afford for me not to go back to work. My husband has a demanding, stressful job with long hours and travels fairly often.

However, my husband's attitude is killing me. I have always done about 80% of all the housework / childcare and general mental load management, even when I was in busy jobs. That is probably why I found it so hard to juggle all the demands. My husband was on board with me quitting as he could see how overwhelmed I was.

Right now, logically, I do pretty much 100% of housework and childcare etc. But my husband now seems to have this vague notion that it is completely normal, and that his sleep and needs are somehow superior to mine because I don't work. He never phrased it in this way, but for example, he will often sleep in on Sundays, have a nap after lunch and leave all clearing up to me, and go for a walk and disappear when it's dinner time and bedtime. He won't get up in the night if the children wake up, and he won't get them up and ready in the mornings. He used to be like that sometimes, but now it's like he can justify it to himself because he's the only one in a really stressful busy job.

I guess I feel I'm screwed either way: if I have a job, I am still doing the vast majority of housework (although my husband never recognised that), and if I don't work, it feels like I am here to accommodate his needs (sleeping, resting) and cannot in any way ask him to do a bit more at home without him telling me, well, why don't you go find yourself a big job and I'll stay at home? But I know I wouldn't want that, and I suspect he wouldn't like it or cope with housework without me hand holding him.

Also, his mum is very much of the mindset that women were put on earth to be caring and look after everyone, so there's definitely an element I recognise here (and hate).

AIBU?

some men are like this, but not all

To OP - the whole "man with big job / SAHM" model is terrible for supporting patriarchy. Your DH, not having to rush home at 5pm for after school pick up, is probably dismissive of staff in his office who do. And do the cycle continues

I agree that women usually do more than men around the home. But doing 80% of it while you both work full time is extreme, it really is.

My advice is: either remain as a SAHM, accept the status quo and do lots of nice things for yourself while the kids are at school. Or go back to work and divorce him, at least then you'll get a break while the kids are with him.

I suppose you missed the part of my post where I said this is a "common" problem, whereby the "majority" of men. If I thought it were all men I would have said "universal problem" and "all men".

As for your other point - OP did have a job and was still doing 80% of the childcare , housework.

Thanks for all your posts so far, gives me different perspectives and ideas, and that's very helpful.
I will definitely look for another job after this summer, as I want to contribute and have my financial independence.

I suppose I am not looking forward to it, because I know from experience that I will have to manage working and fighting at home to get a fairer share of the load, and that has been exhausting in the past. I will also never be in a job that is as well paid as my husband's (by choice to a point, but also because it is difficult to change careers at this point). Therefore there will always be an argument, rightly or wrongly, that his load at home should be lighter.

If your kids are in school and you're not working, I would expect you to do absolutely everything too. You're not even looking after kids for most of the day, you'll have loads of time to do household stuff and take time to yourself. That's not patriarchy, that's just sensible and fair.

When you were working, that's very different. However, unless he held a gun to your head and told you everything was your responsibility, why did you do it all? Just communicate. Sit down, agree who does what. Get help in - cleaner, gardener or whatever. Agree a fair share.

We can't blame everything on men. Women have to stand up for themselves. If you're going to allow yourself to be a doormat then more fool you. No man would ever get away with it with me!

See no OP I disagree with you, why is there always going to be an argument that his load at home should be lighter?

If he is working 40 hours and you’re working 20 hours then yeah, there is an argument for his load to be lighter because you have more time. But if you’re both working 40 hours then it should be equal at home, your hourly rate doesn’t factor into that. 40 hours is still 40 hours whether you’re paid £12 an hour or £50 an hour.

Pay does not change the load to be carried at home. When you have a job you sit down and ask your partner how to split everything. He’s in charge of some things and you others but he needs to come up with a plan where he takes his share.

and you need equal downtime. If he slips off at bedtime one evening then you do the next.

I found a joint email address was the answer so anything booked for the kids or the house goes to the shared email that you both have access to therefore there’s no ‘I don’t know what time it starts’ etc excuses.

don’t just call it the patriarchy - you have to hold your husband to account else what do you expect to change for your kids?

Nope. I work 21 hours a week, DH works FT as a contractor. His salary is 3 times what my FT salary would be. It’s about equal free time in our house not how much you earn.

My experience is that if the other person has leverage over you they will use it.
Unfortunately him being the one whose hand is closest to the money gives him all the power and those predatory instincts kick in very quickly.
For women, being the breadwinner yourself tends not to solve the problem, if you earn more than him he will punish you for it in some way.
The only solution I have found is to never live with a man, it gives them too much power over you.

It's interesting how people don't want to call it the patriarchy on here when it's exactly that, performing gender roles and the socialisation of girls vs boys for future gender roles is the patriarchy, now it's up to her husband if he wants to participate in this or not and by the sounds of it and his upbringing he's one that is in favour of upholding the patriarchy....

OP you have to have a chat with him and point out the things in your OP to him it doesn't have to be this way but whether your husband wants to change or not is another question if he doesn't then it's up to you to choose can you put up with it (I don't think you should btw) or would you divorce?

I'm in a similar circumstances but have a different experience.
I was made redundant in Feb and am on a career break now with an almost 5 yo and number 2 on the way. We have always done roughly 50:50 chores. We both have our set chores based on our skill set. I can plan ahead my partner can't, I don't see mess my partner can.
When I was in work I worked 4 days and when my daughter started school in September I was doing more chores on a Wednesday to give us more family time at the weekend so we were now probably split the chores 60:40.
Since I have been out of work, I have been responsible for jobs that need doing 9-5, I'm now doing 90% of the week day cooking compared to 30-40% before. We alternate who does bed time and the other person deals with cleaning up the kitchen after our evening meal. At the weekend we split jobs 50:50 and we share the child care. My partner does more DIY and on those weekends I do more of the childcare.
My partner takes our daughter every Saturday and Sunday morning whilst I sleep in until 9-10. I struggle with mornings due to health issues and medication and need at least one morning a week where I can sleep until I naturally wake up and not be woken by an alarm.

My partner is in a demanding job and there are allowances for that but he is also a father and partner and me being at home during the week doesn't excuse him not contributing at the weekend.

I'm confused, you have school aged children and feel you don't have down time?
What are you doing all day, unless you live in the Ritz you should be able to keep on top of the house in the morning and chill in the
afternoon .
I have two teenagers and work full time, I clean and tidy before I start work at 8am. You really shouldn't be struggling.

If they weren't at school itd be different, but you have hours to yourself everyday during term time- housework and everything else doesnt occupy the whole time. That said, he is an adult and the fact hes doing less than he would as a single man when he has a family is grim.

Sometimes i dont wash his shirts…. You can be sure that will remind him to pull his weight..
also, for having been in your situation, id advise you to do some volunteering or a very small paid job. It changed things quite a bit: i had more things to talk about. And just this small thing, talking about my “work” (two hours volunteering in a play group a week) rather than just the kids and chores, made me more equal to him.
i am now in a demanding stressful job with 3 kids (youngest is 13) and the balance is so much better. I have found that if he is in charge of one thing (dishwasher: easy) and i of something else (laundry: harder) then it works better than not having well defined areas of contribution. Same for the bills. I earn very little compared to to him but i pay some bills, the kids tutoring and pocket money. He pays mortgage (50-50% on the house though), some bills and kids activities.
i have found splitting thing to be very helpful.

one last piece of advice - when i was at home i made sure he contributed to a pension fund in my name. It wasnt a lot, but it was a recognition of my labour (kids + home).

also if you are in a fortunate position, nannies and cleaners are your friends!
enjoy being a SAHM!

I think the lie in at the weekends and him having (some!) time to himself is ok, given that you must have at least the equivalent of that over the week while your kids are at school. I appreciate you do all the housework, but I have kids a similar age and I would still have a couple of hours a day free if I didn't work and they were at school.

I think the biggest issue is that he's just not engaged with family life. Even with a fairly traditional set up of the husband working and the wife at home, I'd expect the husband to be spending time as a family at weekend and after work. Putting the kids to bed, taking them on outings, just engaging and spending time together. Sounds like he's either working long hours, or just doing what he wants on his downtime. It doesn't sound like he is invested in family life and that you and the kids are just props on his main character life. That just wouldn't sit right with me. Not least because I think children deserve so much better than that. You do too.

You say he hasn't really said this, it's a vague notion. Maybe he doesn't realise you feel this way? Absolutely you need to talk to him and as manager of the house which you are now, you need to delegate because he might not know (genuinely) what needs to be done. You also need to know for sure if he has this attitude or if it's your own thoughts or presumptions.

I did exactly the same as you, went from FT to SAHM and I worked very hard when kids were at school to have as much done as possible so weekends were very chilled. But we still took turns lying in or taking the kids out. Dh would help prep a meal or we'd split clean up. I would never pick up after him though, i often told him I'm not asking you to do more work I'm just asking you to not create any.

This is an old thread but well worth a read
part one

part two

I ended up a sahm due to a confluence of circumstances and this discussion helped me get my head around some of the issues.

I’d be very, very wary of making yourself financially vulnerable to a man who doesn’t respect what you do. But those links might help you articulate the issues and find a better partnership.

We had a very similar set up. The difference is that my dp was always ready and willing to do more than his share at the weekend and to make sure that I got time off. I did do everything house related during the week because I wanted him to spend as much time with the children as possible because that was the most important thing.

At the weekend we very consciously and after discussion divided the time up so we both got a lie in, and both got some completely free time, some time together , and he had time alone with the children. All these things were ringfenced. We found that it was very important to actually plan and write down the time so it didn’t drift.

You need to have a written list of what you both do each day to compare. Anything from taking out the bin, to bed time, to cooking dinner or hoovering.

Show him the comparison after a week and ask him if he thinks this is fair.

Yes as a SAHP your list should be more but not to the degree you’re saying and definitely not on weekends.

Your kids are at school so presumably you have time to yourself during the week? I understand certain jobs need to be done in the evening etc, but I can't see all of your jobs taking more than 50 hours a week.

You have free time during the day when the kids are at school, he nas sunday morning.

Work from the principal of equal amounts of "me time"

All these people telling OP she should do all the childcare and domestic work is driving me mad. No! What is important is they have equal downtime, so if DH gets to sleep in and time to himself OP gets this too and on a reasonable schedule:

Op presumably gets a fair few hours in the week when they are at school? Agree about the lie ins, a morning each is fair.

So what was his excuse for you doing 80% of it when you were working? He basically thinks it's women's work, doesn't he? And he's relieved you've quit work so that he now feels justified in doing fuck all.

Patriarchy and marriage, how do you do it?
When I was very part time, I did most of it. When we are both working full time it's 50/50. If anything, he does more.

The kids are at school! She is neither working nor providing childcare during the day.