To report benefit fraud?

[DylanKeogh]

I work for a charity who support a vulnerable subsect of people. I've been asked to support a person who cares for a vulnerable individual to complete PIP review paperwork. The PIP review was for HIM not the vulnerable person.

I have completed the review form filling in details that he asked me to. Handily for him, he had all his PIP and DLA applications dating back to 1997 (that I could see, maybe earlier).

I had to paraphrase the 2016 application so his disabilities and care needs looked consistent. The version of events given in 2016 did not match the person our charity has been supporting for a while now. For example, 'cannot leave the house without his son for support.' He doesn't speak to his son. His kids haven't spoken to him for years he frequently claims. 'Cannot walk more than 10m without stopping and not at all without a stick.' We've never seen a stick and our building he visits weekly is more than 10m away from his car, and of course more than 10m in length. There was not a stick on show in the house, nor one by the front door. He showed me photos of a day out last weekend that "was a huge place to walk around." No stick in the photos!

I did say at the time that I was just going to have to copy the previous application or it will look like he's been miraculously cured. He agreed to it. I felt dreadful at the time as I'm thinking he is bare faced lying. I said to my Dad that I've lied terribly. He said I hadn't lied as they weren't my words, nor was it my signature.

Do I forget about it? Everybody is entitled to do what they want, not my place to judge. I did the job I'm paid to do and if he wants to commit benefit fraud, that's on him?

Or do I have a moral obligation to report people who are dishonestly depriving the state and tax payers? I support so many people who genuinely have never and don't believe they should claim benefits. They really do struggle.

YABU - Keep your sticky beak out

YANBU - Report away, it looks like he's been taking money for almost 30yrs!

Unlike people with intermittent conditions, this claimant is talking about being unable to leave the house without his son- while OP knows he doesn’t speak to his DC and obviously does leave the house. This claimant is talking about always using a stick, yet doesn’t appear to have a stick and hasn’t been seen with a stick.

That isn’t the same as ‘on bad days, high risk of collapse’.

Something that interests me- can you still get lifetime awards? DM has a lifetime award. She’s currently as able as anyone else her age, but her health and mobility were poor in the past.

I applied for a blue badge recently. One of the instructions was about mitigations you can make to your condition. So if doing your tasks differently makes you better, you don’t need a blue badge. That means when driving, if I stop every hour and walk around so I don’t cease up, I’m not entitled to a blue badge for example.

I thought that was interesting. I do a lot to mitigate my condition, and it all restricts me significantly. That restriction doesn’t entitle me to support, though it sort of increases my need for it.

Maybe he has previously sent in medical evidence . I don't think there is anyway someone would continue to get PIP for many years without sending evidence at some point.

Well report away, but you were complicit in the fraud!

So I assume you do a similar job to the Op
If you had concerns ,would your first thought be to ask mumsnet whst to do?

Report.

So you thought you would share a client's confidential medical condition/info on Mumsnet and with your father?

Even if you are doing this anonymously it is not the best approach...

Any concerns should be passed on to your manager.

''It's back pain. No degenerative condition as such.''

You are not a doctor and you can't diagnose the cause of it or whether it will worsen or not...

Seriously OP, is this is real and you have concerns then speak to your manager as you should.

They will likely tell you that it is the DWP's job to assess any claim and to verify the statements made in them, not yours...

No I don't think I would ask mumsnet . I don't know whether op just wants to stir up a benefits bashing thread or whether she is genuinely in a turmoil about being complicit in benefit fraud and seeking support. I personally try to speak to my manager about dilemmas like this and she tends to shuts down conversations.. I know it is something my ex colleague has struggled with to the point of leaving the job

I had a very interesting conversation with a GP I got stuck in an airport with. He said that the practice he works at sees this all the time. People insisting they have all kinds of conditions in order to secure PIP. He says it's not his job to police the benefits system so he just signs them off to get them out of his surgery. All the GPs in his surgery do the same.

I could see he found it exasperating, with much head shaking going on. I wouldn't want his job for all the tea in china.

Exactly this. As I said previously all claims should be thoroughly checked and it's a three step process, the PIP form just being one part of it. Even if a client exaggerated things on the claim form, this would be thoroughly checked out at assessment and medical evidence.

Why did you fill it in if you thought that it was a lie? Surely that makes you as bad?

Does your employer not have a policy that would prevent you from colluding in fraudulent activity, OP? Surely you should have declined to complete the application when you realised that you were being asked to enter information that was untrue? Could you not have insisted on completing the application on the basis of current circumstances?

And that is entirely legitimate, as long as the information given on the form is true.

I once helped a couple get PIP. One of them was severely visually impaired and the other had a neurological disorder that meant they had to use a wheelchair to move any distance more than a few steps. As they used to put it, he was the legs, she was the eyes. And they were both carer for the other, because they had very different disabilities.

Well it his job if the patient says they have xy and z and they don't than a GP shouldn't be saying they do
I suspect however you were talking too wasn't actually a GP ,
I can't even imagine how a Dr would strike up a conversation with a random person just to tell them how he's complicit in helping people make fraudulent PIP claims very odd.

In my current role, the funding is solely to support the client, but in both my previous welfare rights jobs, we supported the whole household.

Always report concerns. If it is all above board then nothing will happen, if it is fraud action can be taken.

Have you spoken to your line manager? That would probably be a better place to start than Mumsnet.

Of course report. Else you've become part of the problem taking away the limited resource from people who genuinely need it.

You've breached your company policies by knowingly fraudulently applying for PIP, and you're beached your company policies by knowingly breaching confidentiality - both in person and on the world wide web.

I think if you report him you'll get in more trouble than he does!

You are not saving the day by making someone’s life very difficult when it sounds like it already is. He's a carer. That's hard. For whatever reason he's on PIP. That's hard to get. I'd be really surprised if he ended up being one of that 0.4%. But have you any idea how awful it would be if he were legitimate? People blasély say ‘if he's innocent then nothing to fear’ but he has everything to fear. Not just having his legitimate award taken away (that's why the tribunals are so successful) but also of someone else doing it again.

What a load of guff. I find some of these posts laughable, and so made up.

I call bullshit on this. If that ‘GP’ and the whole surgery is lying about patients medical conditions then they are complicit in fraud. No professional would willingly risk that and act so blasé justifying it by saying it’s not their responsibility. They are putting their name to fraud and risking their reputation. You, or them, are talking through your arse.

Secondly, I’d love to know how such a conversation arises with a stranger in an airport!? You must think people are bloody stupid. It’s a bit like those posters who insist their neighbours are casually telling all and sundry that they’re raking it in by committing benefit fraud 😂😂😂. Utter bollocks.

What on Earth do people get out of making up such rubbish? Don't they have anything more interesting to do, my goodness!

God knows its the same on every thread about disability benefits but they always insist they are telling the truth its tedious.

This is really upsetting. People like this are the reason the rest of us worry about being awarded pip when we need it. They actually work to kpis you know. Monitored for how many they should accept. Literally he is taking award from another person. Perhaps he is overexaggerating and entitled to something in the assessment? But I guess you wouldn't know if you copy and pasted it. Please report, its immoral not to. I am not sure what job you do either, but could you get in trouble for this?

Exactly, and totally transparent to boot.