Thread 7: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Second article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

Third item in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

Fourth item in The Observer
‘I felt I was being gaslit’ – the landlord who helped Ray...

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Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the four Observer items above before posting.

To all - Please be careful when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with possible visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail.
Keep on the path as we have done together amazingly well for six threads so far. No saltiness. Thank you.

They lean into the free spirited hippy, doing some vague sounding hobby job persona which most of us would associate with being middle class or even upper class as working class people can’t afford to do that. I guess until they sold a lot of books they couldn’t afford to do it either, but it didn’t stop them 😁

I can't believe she thought thay blocking up rabbit holes was a nice little story to share, wtf?!

😄 True – they couldn't!

I agree.

I know people say perceptions of class are unique to the U.K., but my sense is that this particular brand of what we would call middle class is more universal?

That 64K would've come in pretty useful then, had mean old Martin Hemmings not wanted it back.

In terms of Angela Harding's copyright in her works. It will depend on her contract/commission agreement. An artist automatically owns copyright, but some agreements include a clause that transfers copyright and other IP rights to the commissioner (in this case PRH).

If Angela agreed to such a clause, Penguin would still be able to use her artwork to promote SW books.
https://www.dacs.org.uk/advice/articles/copyright-and-commissioned-works

However, you never lose your moral right as the creator of the work (legally called being its 'author', even for designs), so Angela would always be able state she is the artist.
https://www.dacs.org.uk/advice/articles/moral-rights-what-they-are-how-they-protect-artists

As an aside, a PP mentioned SW is annoyed AH is making money in relation to having her art featured on a couple of books in TSP series. I'd say AH did more to help her become a success than vice versa. Have read several comments that PRH boosted TSP sales by commissioning such brilliant cover art for it.

Here's Angela's website. Maybe she could make us a little MN item :-) Wonder what that could be/say? 'Here since Day 1' badge? '7 threads' coaster set? 'Salty Sleuths' apron?
https://angelaharding.co.uk/

ETA typo correction

I'm not sure whether these questions have been answered on this thread (or can be answered yet) but I wondered if anybody had any thoughts on the following:

1. Now that we have established the genealogy of the family member who gave the £100K loan, is there any possibility that he could indeed have been a childhood friend of Moth's riding a trike?
2. What (if any) is the relationship between the size of the original investment and the £100K loan? It seems unbelievable that Moth could have invested £100K into a relative's property business in the early 1990s when he was working as a gardener for the NT and doing odd plastering jobs.
3. Did SW and TW try and sell the french property to the brother who owned the pigeon tower? The brother would have been the most obvious buyer as the two plots, joined together, would be much more commercially viable. Maybe TW did ask his brother in 2008, the brother refused and this ignited a family feud that continues to this day?
4. Did TW and SW try and sell the French property in 2013 as claimed but the agent tell them that with a neighbour's (TW's brother) pigeon tower overlooking the property, then it was essentially unsellable?
5. Did SW and TW run the farm and barns in Wales as rental holiday accommodation before she lost her job with the Hemmings in 2008? If not, was the money that was being embezzled being used to do up the barn prior to it being rented out so that it could generate income to cover their expenses as seems to be the case with the current owner who runs it as an AirBnb?

I think AH did a lot for SW success

I think the brilliant cover art is the main a big part of the books appeal.

It's not bad to be middle class but it's bad to be in a position of privilege* without acknowledging it, while playing the victim and pretending to be marginalised in order to make large sums of money to line your own pockets.

*See The Intersectional Wheel of Privilege

That’s interesting. I’d only read the book, and until I started reading these threads, I don’t think I’d seen a single tv interview/feature so I didn’t have that to compare.

I mean, I didn’t actually blame her for being bitter and resentful in the book —I assumed when I first read it that it was displaced anger and regret at having lost their home, and that, as it’s presented as more Moth’s ‘fault’ than hers (as it was presented as his friend’s business, his trusting nature that initiated it) and as Moth had just got a terminal diagnosis, Raynor couldn’t even be properly angry at him. So she bitched about friends who helped them, other walkers, people who went on holidays to caravan parks that looked like prison camps or built extensions, ‘Etonian’ beggars etc.

I was still interested in why her editor didn’t suggest taking some of it out, though.

Interesting comments about TSP scandal from a number of book sellers.

The Salt Path: Bookshops offer refunds after Raynor Winn scandal ‘disappoints’ customers

Jo Coldwell, who has been manager at the store for over ten years, says The Salt Path was one of the shop’s most popular titles. “She is really popular,” Coldwell told The Independent. “People believed in the brand. They loved the covers, the aesthetic of it all is just beautiful. Something about it resonated with people. It was a phenomenon. It was a middle-aged, middle-class woman, and that’s probably a lot of our customers. There is quite a bit of voyeuristic excitement around it.”

Re questions above relating to the French property, don't know about in 2013 but according to The Times, the mayor has tried to find out if they want to sell it:

'“Every year, the mayor comes round and asks me if the owners of the building have returned. Everyone’s been trying to find them because everyone wants to buy the house,” Morley said.'

For context, that's Sean Morley from Brighton who owns another property in the village:

'Morley, a chef who works in the town of Eymet and said he had never read The Salt Path and did not plan on doing so, said that interest in his neighbours preceded the Observer investigation.'
https://archive.ph/AmeUg#selection-1787.105-1787.287

Also the Mayor is still trying to get taxes back from them, according to the DM:

'According to the Mayor of the nearby town of Pardaillan, Serge Cadiot, whose bailiwick includes Le Village Du Dropt, the local taxes on the house haven’t been paid ‘for years’ – an accusation which Sally Walker rejected in her statement this week.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14904933/French-property-Salt-Path.html

It's a mystery why they keep it on, abandoned and deteriorating further, when at least if they sold it they could presumably clear the back taxes. Maybe to annoy the brother.

I absolutely agree — the cover is both well-designed and striking (in that AH’s artwork is in itself nice to look at, and the cover designer has done a good job of integrating the print with the title, admiring excerpt from a review etc), but I think it also suggests a kind of homespun charm and Englishness and redemption.

Plus it really stands out on a table in a bookshop.

Sorry if this has been answered (don't think I have a xhance of ever catching up with these threads! 😅) but I asked Isabella Tree's husband exactly this question and, as I had guessed, the 'excess' livestock is culled, sold at a premium price, and eaten 😋. (Cattle and pigs) (Though perhaps the ponies are just sold 😁)

As I was up in the reaches of the night with a misbehaving gallbladder 😂I decided to watch a few clips of the Saltlines tour. Gigspanner fine, but her reading/performance was IMHO not good at all. She doesn't have a great speaking voice, the material was trite and her performance distracted rather than added. I confidently say I would have thought this even before the last 10 days.

I know eg poets reading their own work can be utterly dire (looking at you TS Eliot) but I don't understand why anyone thought it was a great idea.

There's been a good bit of talk about re-wilding on this thread. I've linked to an Irish story, if anyone is interested. Incidentally, there's a reference in the article to St. Oliver Plunkett. Plunkett (the saint) was an Irish martyr. He had the misfortune to be hanged, drawn and quartered in England. His head is on display in St. Peter's Church in Drogheda. I mention this because we were taken to see the head on a school tour! I mean, it wasn't the main focus of the tour - it was kind of a side act. But even so, can you imagine the AIBUs if this happened today .

‘People think you’re an idiot’: death metal Irish baron rewilds his estate | Conservation | The Guardian

Thank you.

I think we have established that 'rewinding' is an imprecise term that means different things to different people, and so requires varying levels of skill, depending on aims and methods used!

I can believe that @Uricon2! Hopefully Gigspanner will go from strength to strength without her.

We chatted about their Kickstarter on here yesterday, I was too tired and brain-clogged to expand on my view then. I don't have any problem with aspiring bands doing that, especially where it reduces excess materials being produced.

What I was uncomfortable with was SW placing herself in a position of fundraising, 'a vessel for good', when she was actually using this as part of marketing her own presence on stage with them and well had the resources to cover their target herself.

It reminded me of her having charged Crisis an apparently substantial appearance fee for their fundraising event featuring a book reading and Q&A for TSP.

It reminded me of her having charged Crisis an apparently substantial appearance fee for their fundraising event featuring a book reading and Q&A for TSP.

😳😳😳.
I know a grifters gonna grift but that takes the freaking biscuit.

Thanks @FluentHedgehog for the copyright info.

Since Angela H has distanced herself I think they may like to rebrand if the book ends up being published in October 2026.

I also wonder how they'll move forward from this.

Tim is obviously not terminally I'll, so he's not going to die anytime soon (which is a good thing). However they either have to continue with the walking has miraculous effects on him speil, which the diehards will continue to believe, but no one else will. Or he's going to have to live as a recluse so that no one sees that he's a fairly healthy bloke in his mid sixties all things considered.

I saw Saltlines when it originally toured. The music is beautifully evocative of the coast, mixing old sea songs with modern folk in a gorgeous sound. I got increasingly irritated with and by the Raysal interruptions. I'd recommend listening to Gigspanner, Edgelarks and Gigspanner Big Band (GBB being a combination of the first two as I understand it)

Moth doesn't apparently feature accompanying SW on the C2C described in On Winter Hill. Either he fades into the background and the books (if there are any) focus more on general themes and the landscape or he does re-emerge as a relatively fit 60 year old accompanying his wife on a hike somewhere and there is less emphasis on his ongoing neurological condition. Who knows.

Well, according to the logic of the thread, they’ve gotten away with it pulling off a multi-year literary heist. The perceived wisdom is that if they had told the truth, the book would never have taken off or achieved the success it has. So, by doing all the things many here rightly condemn and by being duplicitous about it they managed to pull off a literary world sensation: multiple best-selling, award-winning books and even a movie adaptation to top it all off.

So really, it’s not about a damaged brand or the future fall-off in sales it should be framed around what they’ve already managed to bank, and no doubt, probably invest. And even if they are penalized by the fallout of this scandale littéraire, it doesn't really matter what happens from here on out they’ve already won the elusive prize: the gold at the end of the rainbow.

They sold their souls if they ever had any for earthly treasures. I’ve always thought about that line of Jesus: "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?" The answer, it seems, is: the world.

The tangible world the one we can touch, smell, and feel. The one that wakes us in the morning and lulls us to sleep at night.

But where is the soul, mama?

You don't have to be obsessed with/interested in the effects of class if you grew up solidly middle class, unless you're particularly interested in the politics of how the upper classes/aristocracy quietly dominate out institutions (sometimes invisibly).
But if you're working class, or that mix of 'parents were working class, you've got a degree and a good salary and your kids speak more posh than you do' then it has affected you all your life in myriad ways and you absolutely have had to factor it into how you process various experiences in life. It's no good saying it doesn't matter.

Answers

1 At a mental stretch. Cooper was exactly 6 years older and they apparently lived in the Burton area. Assuming moth could ride a trike aged 2, Cooper would be 8 on a bike. I can't see how they grew up together and shared teenage years in the same group of friends as portrayed in TSP. As an aside, all of Tim's siblings are younger with an even bigger age gap from Cooper so they are unlikely to have been in the gang either.

2 We can't know how much money Tim invested initially, only what he alleged Cooper owed him from the maturation of the investment years later, something which Cooper allegedly did not declare at the time. What we do know is that a property company of Cooper's went bust in 2010 and this was set up in 1999. So Tim couldn't have invested in this in the early 1990s nor is there any other company of Cooper's that would fit an early 1990s property investment. We also have to query why the liquidators dealing with the failed company did not challenge the £100,000 loan agreement that Cooper had given two men, at least one of whom was a former director of said company. If the loan had come from the company, as Raymoth alleged, the liquidators would have challenged it in court.

3& 4 No idea

5 Seems likely some of the money was used to renovate the barn, but very hard to know. More evidence needed to know what the barn was like pre 2008 and when it started to be rented.