Thread 7: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Second article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

Third item in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

Fourth item in The Observer
‘I felt I was being gaslit’ – the landlord who helped Ray...

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Thread 6
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5372494-thread-6-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the four Observer items above before posting.

To all - Please be careful when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with possible visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail.
Keep on the path as we have done together amazingly well for six threads so far. No saltiness. Thank you.

Was the business that went into liquidation a limited company, @AldoGordo? Have you found that “Cooper” had more than one business?

The thing that baffles me about the loan is that RayMoth say the it was a loan from the company and the liquidators agreed that and said that they would accept a payment plan.

If the company went into liquidation, the liquidators recover any debts and pay the creditors (if there is any money). There are laws about who gets paid first and how much. Usually directors of a limited company aren’t liable personally for any debt.

In the court case, “Cooper” testified that the loan was from him personally, not the company. Why was he personally paying his business creditors?

I’m not suggesting any wrongdoing but I feel like we still only have half the story.

This is, if not the crux of it, a major factor for me. IF SW/TW were planning to repay the embezzlement with proceeds from selling their farmhouse before re-settling in France, and the property market slump held that up, I would feel less badly towards them.

From widow Roz Hemmings' account though, the impact would still have been awful – paraphrasing but she said her husband worked long days and couldn't fathom why the business wasn't returning more profit from it. Plus the shock of the deception, even if it's repaid.

And I think if SW had been planning to repay I feel like she would have mentioned at the time she spoke about selling her mother's wedding dress (which yes we've established was not a dress but a powder blue suit).

Not that I can see. There are multiple companies, some of which went insolvent. From a brief look I can't see any that were the sort that involved buying shares.

There was a comment on the first DM article online that said the father had mentioned the French property and that Tim was doing it up. And he would go out there and live with them afterwards.

As far as I've gathered, it was always a personal loan from the distant relative. By Raymoth's account he told them it was a business loan though.

This is my only post. I have been following these threads with interest as I walk a lot and see its benefits. I am familiar with all the background to this controversy and feel that the recent statement from Raymoth did nothing to disconfirm the claims made in the Observer article and, implicitly, actually confirmed some of them. One thing has been bugging me since I read the medical letters posted with that statement. In the 2015 (earliest) letter the consultant initially describes the patient as he presents (physical appearance, occupation) then records the patient’s account of his symptoms and how they are affecting him. He is told that Moth “has to step very deliberately unless he is walking on very even ground”. This is a year or so after Moth has apparently walked around 600 miles of a challenging coastal path, of which a large part is uneven, there are many steep climbs and sets of steps and even some scrambles. Surely any consultant worth his/her salt would note the serious deterioration in Moth’s physical abilities, from completing this walk to being physically unstable, over a relatively short period of time as this would be relevant to a diagnosis. Not noting that change would seem an important omission. That is, of course, if the consultant was told about the walk. If the walk was not disclosed (and this was before the book emerged) one would have to ask why not, and whether not disclosing such a feat could mitigate against an accurate diagnosis. Maybe I’ve missed something and this has been discussed. In which case I apologise.

The theft caused years of hard to the Hemmings family. Repaying it won't have undone that. And "intending to repay" doesn't justify theft.

Yes, Cooper had several businesses, some of which also went into liquidation...it's tough gleaning anything from the companies' documentation. When I have time I might go back and look more carefully. I think you are right though...it's worth being cautious.

This is a very astute observation.

No, I haven't said that it does? I've just said that it would make me feel less badly towards them. I also noted:

"the impact would still have been awful – paraphrasing but she said her husband worked long days and couldn't fathom why the business wasn't returning more profit from it. Plus the shock of the deception, even if it's repaid."

I get that, I just think a potential change in property values is a total red herring as it really doesn't alter the awfulness of their actions -fraud and theft from a family business over a sustained period

Exactly. My father's accountant embezzled the company my father ran (thankfully not owned) of almost 500k in the 90s. It almost broke the company and my father took a pay cut to help keep the company afloat and was no longer able to look forward to his lucrative annual bonus. The repercussions have lasted decades. He had a 10 year plan to retire early and was investing all his bonuses in his pension. He still did end up returing early, but only because he had a heart attack at 55. He had less than half his anticipated pension pot due to that embezzlement. What was worse is the accountant was also a personal friend. Thankfully the wanker went to jail for it. It properly fucked my Dad over in more ways than one, but thankfully at 77 he's still alive and kicking.

Meant to add: Accountant's sob story in court was: Got out of hand / low self esteem / meant to pay it back but wife became used to the nice lifestyle...

Yes, and also another thing that made the apparent completion of further walks on uneven terrain unlikely. The London marathon is a flat surface (I've run it) but the Thames Path isn't. I suppose it's whether to believe the 'walking cure' idea or entertain the possibility that perhaps TW exaggerated his symptoms.

Did the company go into liquidation or did he just transfer the debt to his creditors?

Did he attempt to save the company by transferring the debt to his creditors before the company went into liquidation?

Oh that's a devastating story to read. I am sure it did all kinds of harm that can't even be easily articulated.

I sat and skipped meals in my twenties due to being short of cash (I was too ill to work) knowing there was enough cash in the house (belonging to my husband's boss, used to pay contractors who did day work) that I could have bought a fairly decent car with it. It was not my money so I didn't touch a penny of it.

Nah! RW would have left the brambles and called it "re-wilding"

My point was that I, personally, would feel less bad if they were planning to pay it back. That's not saying it's not still despicable to have done it, and caused harm over a number of years; something that I noted. It's saying I would find it a little less immoral of them. Less does not mean totally different, it means less. That's just how I feel about it. We're not all going to feel exactly the same about everything.

The other issue in these cases is that if the accountant is presenting false accounts, there is no way to monitor company performance. Everyone else is flying blind.

I don't think what you describe here is unusual behaviour. Most of us on here, I'd hope, would not steal money. Just because you're in the same house as a pile of cash and are hungry doesn't make that default choice any more commendable.

I wasn't trying to present myself as commendable. I assumed it was the norm.

My point is more than i just don't think there are any scenarios that justify theft. (And that a claimed "intent to pay it back" is irrelevant as it should never have been taken in the first place)

Well we are in agreement there then.

ETA as post was edited, I've already outlined re intent to pay back.

Maybe she just thought that if the accounts were a bit of a mess anyway, and he was distracted by having cancer, she would get away with it. Pretty grim really.

He had cancer?

Good questions that I'd need more time to look at the company documents. There were actually several companies he had directorship over so I first need to determine which is the relevant one. All I can determine for now is some of them definitely went into liquidation and were dissolved.

When we were discussing the French property in Thread 1 or 2, nearby property belonging to other Walkers led to suggestion it was their parents'. I've looked through the first 20 pages of Thread 1 to find the relevant discussion without success, not going to root through further. We now know the dovecot and chateau belongs to TW's brother MW, conservator author.