To think therapy culture is creating narcissists?

[ThatIcyAnt]

It’s one thing to understand your trauma. It’s another to weaponise it as a reason to never change. “This is just how I am” isn’t growth, it’s avoidance in a self-help disguise.

I see it in autistic adults - the level ones or the self diagnosed. There is suddenly an endless list of things they cant do or tolerate and they cannot change at all under any circumstances (as they'll burn out) and everyone else just has to pick up the slack, including the kids.

They have an answer for everything as to why they can't do something and the only solution is for everyone else to give them what they want.

I wouldn't say that this is necessarily the therapy, to me it sounds more like people hearing others who are talking about their therapy and extrapolating 'therapy words' to apply to themselves.

You hear a lot of it on here 'my DH is anxious avoidant' or whatever the current phrase is, trying to explain away shitty behaviour by diagnosing some problem that the poor man can't help. It's one of those examples of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Too much poorly understood 'therapy speak' to try to reason away unpleasantness.

True that people with diagnosed/undiagnosed PDs present but people with a narcissistic personality disorder are much, much less likely to present for the simple reason that they do not usually believe they have an issue. They typically see their difficulties as being caused by other people.

Therapy culture yes, good therapists no, mine spent a lot of time asking me probing questions and then staring at me. It was actually very helpful, when she did offer an opinion it was always within a narrow specific way but generally she was good at nudging me to work it out for myself.

'Be kind doesn’t work any better than being harsh used to'

This is very wise and I think you're spot on. If someone is dealing with stress / trauma / a MH diagnosis etc, that is very tough and they deserve compassion. However, it is a challenge that they need to overcome, with support, but without being fawned over and endless excuses being made, either by them or by others

Also agree with the comments that proper, decent therapy doesn't involve strategies, blame, or diagnosing all and sundry as 'narcissists' or anything else. Therapy involves a huge amount of work for the client, not just sitting back and finding reasons why everyone else is at fault

Yes my therapist used to encourage exactly this and said she was sure I was ND after just one session.

Turns out I’m not.

I also think people stop half way. You get a diagnosis, now you know why you are having trouble. The other part of therapy is trying to help you function.

DH had anger management therapy, it helped him to understand why he was the way he was but then he spent a lot of time on working on being able to function without resorting to anger.

I think people think it’s fine now to go “oh I’m xy or z so I need to be accommodated”. This was never the purpose of treatment. People have got it arse backwards imo the point was how can you as an individual with xy or z negotiate society successfully not for society to bend around you.

Also just like my former therapist. If I disagreed with her on anything she’d say, ‘This is why you have problems with relationships!’

I didn’t and don’t have problems with relationships though. That was not one of my presenting problems at all. It was as if she just made that up to suit her.

Yes I found therapy extremely hard, I was often a wreck by the end of it and had to have a good long cry, I was always exhausted. Good therapy is not easy therapy, good therapy gives you nowhere to hide. I was expected to help heal myself, my therapist wasn’t kind or nice but she was exactly what I needed. She definitely didn’t try to make me feel better or soothe me lol. It was “ x happened, thats why you are the way you are now try this”. Not lots of wallowing, the focus was on functionality.

But a therapist will never be diagnosing you with anything. That’s not in their skill set or qualifications.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Your example seems to say the same thing for me. Can you give another example please?

It’s not quite the same thing. MIL keeps calling etc is a behaviour that is annoying the person. The MIL may be very boundaried in most areas of her life but have different social etiquette around visiting or calling. She may be used to more casual contact or have had a similar relationship with her own MIL. It may be something to be talked through or accommodated, even though it’s annoying.

MIL will not respect my boundaries is a blanket statement - there may be many boundaries she does respect, it also places responsibility on MIL rather than the person being annoyed to communicate that they can’t talk right now. A boundary is a hard edge in relationships eg if you do X I can’t continue a relationship with you. There are lots of things that are irritating or annoying, but most aren’t deal breakers. Using the language of boundaries for minor annoyances ramps up the intensity and urgency to resolve an issue, because it’s a “boundary”. Most of the time it’s more productive to look for compromise and communication than to go no contact.

I'm not surprised to hear a therapist saying to go N.C. and it just makes me angry.

I'd reserve n.c. for extreme people who are properly dangerous to you. Not for people who might simply dent your ego from time to time.

We're not robots and tricky family aren't boils to be lanced. They are complicated long term relationships.

I had the advice that friends should be my family. 15 years on from this I've observed many a time that friendships come and go. None of my friends could be to my children what my family is to them. And therapists should focus on healing / coping with these relationships .

It's always been around. There's just more awareness of it and recognition of it and language to discuss it.

Look at Narcissus. The old Greeks had a myth about it.

'I'm not surprised to hear a therapist saying to go N.C'

Im extremely surprised to hear it. Therapists generally don't give advice or tell you what to do. They don't have all the answers and it's not their role to sit in judgement about what you 'should' be doing

I do agree with you that going no contact is the nuclear option, not the first response to any sign of conflict. The 'friends as family' stuff also makes me itch. Not that friendships can't be more nurturing and healthy than family relationships, because they can, but it's a very sentimental and simplistic view of friendship. As you say, friendships can come and go and there's no guarantee that they're a conflict free zone either!

I've heard it personally and also my friend was given that advice too. There are so many therapists around these days and I think a real mix of 'advice' being imparted.

Yes, Def v simplistic view of friendship. There's truth in the old adage that blood is thicker than water.

I’m on the side that says therapy can be amazing but therapy culture is mainly just really boring. I’d love to be able to report posts on MN for baseless therapy speak or armchair diagnosis (tbh some of my posts would fall foul of that, I can take it). I don’t think it’s that different in nature from what has happened in the past* but Lord above it’s annoying.

*Jane Austen characters diagnosing each other as reading too much poetry. Little Women needing to read the Bible more - generally people being diagnosed with some spurious spiritual or religious ill.

At its worst, therapy is no more helpful than reading your horoscope in Take A Break.

At its best, therapy holds up a mirror and supports you in understanding your reality and the best way to move through a life crisis when you're 'stuck'.

the former, ten a penny

the latter, like an inspiring teacher, rarely as hen's teeth.

I mean, no-one has to have anyone in their life that they don't want to.

I would probably be hoping secretly that a few of my clients would stop having a relationship with members of their family who are nasty at best, disturbed at worst, but I'd never suggest it. We could explore what it might look like if a client wanted to.

Ahh thanks for the example. I understand what you're saying, there's different norms in different families. Annoying someone is just a preference.