To think the school were neglectful?

[frogshead]

Dd (8) went on a school trip yesterday in a heat wave, 40 minutes each way walking to and from a museum.

I sent dd with 2 bottles of water and she didn’t drink either of them and a hat which she didn’t wear.
She arrived home with a headache and has had diarrhoea since.

I know this was partly down to her but she is juts a child and nobody encouraged her to wear her hat or drink anything all day.
I applied sun cream before she went so at least she had that.

My year 3 class do nothing but ask for their water bottles.

Same! 😁

OP, she'll have been reminded throughout the day and given the opportunity to do so. She'll also have been surrounded by other children drinking which should have served as a reminder.

I had one 8 year old child tell me the other day that he didn't have a water bottle with him and hadn't had a drink all day as he was collecting his things to go home.

I've been telling them to have a drink as soon as they come in, put their water bottles under their tables, allow them to drink as necessary, remind them to take their water bottles out at break and lunch, and stop at various points during the day and remind them drink to make sure they're well hydrated.

We even have a stack of cups at the back of the classroom that the children can help themselves to if they've forgotten their water bottle.

And at not one of these points did this child tell me he hadn't got a water bottle 🤷🏻‍♀️

I am very sure she would have been asked repeatedly by all the adults with them to wear her hat,
if she refuses to then what do they do ? force her ?!!!
no all they can do is keep asking/telling.

Same with drinking her water. They will all have been encouraged / asked to drink from their bottles, yet again if one child doesn't wish or want to what do you think all of these adults are going to do ?
open her mouth and force it down her ?!!!
no.
can you imagine the uproar if they did.

You now have the opportunity to remind her / tell her all weekend that she feels poorly due to her actions / choices / decisions and explain why.

No. She will likely have been told repeatedly to drink. And she’s 8.

That's the advantage of only having 1 child to be responsible for, the teacher probably had a large group. At what age do you expect her to learn to do as she's told?

I am absolutely confident that the teachers regularly reminded the children to drink and wear their hats, but your daughter wasn’t paying attention or didn’t think it applied to her.

Yes and although this trip was a free one there likely was some sort of staff member from the museum holding a Q&A session or little chat that may have cost school money that wasn’t passed on to parents and certainly would have needed booking. It was very hot yesterday and I did worry about my own children drinking and wearing a hat etc but I have a realistic expectation that I send the hat and fluids, I put on the lotion and school encourage children to be sensible. Other than that it’s a case of reminding your own child and pulling permission if you think it’s unsafe and that your child won’t do as they’re repeatedly told and they stay in school with a different year group (in a roasting hot classroom because none of them have aircon) There will have definitely been some slow walkers / overweight children that struggle with mobility / SEN children that walk slowly so I doubt it was a sprint to get there as you all have to stay together.

She's 8! An 8 year old knows if they're thirsty. Personal responsibility needs to become a thing here. She isn't a 2 year old who needs to be regularly encouraged to drink their water and forced to wear a hat. She had one and chose not to wear it. She had water and chose not to drink it.

If you didn’t think it was a safe activity for your daughter, why did you let her go?

If your 8 year old hasn’t the sense she was born with to wear the hat you provided (and I guarantee school will have reminded the class), that’s an issue for you to address with her.

She’s 8, not 4.

There's a difference between expecting a child to take some accountability for themselves and reasonably expecting someone in charge of young children to make sure they are drinking enough in exceptional circumstances.

As much as MN loves to pretend that children out of nappies should essentially be fully formed grown ups, 8 is still young. And anyone in charge of transporting said young children should use a bit of common sense to have regular stops specifically for everyone to take a drink - and to monitor whether hats are on etc. It doesn't have to take more than a minute or two.

The heat was exceptional yesterday, steps should have been taken accordingly. While this certainly is a teaching moment for your daughter, @frogshead, I don't think you're unreasonable for being surprised more care wasn't taken considering the circumstances.

The lucky teacher who is to be interrogated by the OP will hopefully tell her that her daughter wilfully disobeyed the teachers and didn't drink water or wear a hat. as they were told and the OP should make sure her daughter knows to follow important instructions in future.

It seems your dd has learned from you she can only drink if an adult tells her to. That's a bit controlling. Let her drink when she wants to. Much better for her health to drink whenever she feels the need.

I think you should be getting the message loud and clear by now OP, YABU.

I've had thirty plus years experience supervising primary school trips.
There is absolutely no way the teachers weren't giving constant reminders to drink and wear hats. All day they will have been giving instructions, taking breaks and watching over the children like hawks.
They will not have been physically administering water nor physically placing hats on heads of 8 year olds. That is not their job.

If an 8 year old does not have the sufficient autonomy to drink the water she is carrying, when thirsty, or to wear the hat she is carrying when hot, then that seems like an issue for the parents not the teacher.

OP - 'AIBU' - unanimous response: ' yes you are'. OP 'No I'm not'. What's the point of asking, or is it a rhetorical question?

If you didn't want her to go then you shouldn't have sent her.

If you've babied your 8 year old to the point that she dehydrates herself if nobody reminds her to drink, then that's a failure on your part. Nothing to do with the school.

@frogshead
I think this should be a reality check for you as a parent.

Is your daughter expected to listen to direction and do as she is told, when appropriate, or is she always encouraged to do as she sees fit.
So, are you a parent who would “ask” if she feels tired, hungry, thirsty, and expect her to follow her instincts?
This type of parenting is all very well, but it often puts pressure on young children to know what’s best for themselves, when in reality, they don’t. An adult should be making decisions regarding day to day keeping healthy, and children( SEN aside) should generally be able to go along with this.
The problem when children aren’t encouraged to follow direction is that when they leave the protected structured environment, say the classroom, and do something different, a trip out, is that not doing as instructed, ie “put your hats on” has consequences in the real world.

At 8 my child( we live abroad) went on a 2 hour train journey with his class to visit Venice for the day with temperatures in the mid 30’s and had an amazing time. When children are used to doing as they are told they can participate in more things and have more opportunities.
You should be demonstrating to your daughter your disappointment in the fact that she didn’t wear her hat and drink the water you had provided and presumably told her was there. You shouldn’t expect her to be treated like a toddler unless you want her opportunities to be those of a little child.

Because it’s free childcare, that’s why. I’ve said for many years that if education were no longer free in this country or if there were more children than school places (I think that will happen eventually as teachers are leaving in droves - I wonder why! When we’re called neglectful for not placing a hat on top of the heads of children and holding bottles to their mouths) then parents might just realise that it’s a privilege to attend school. Honestly if my children’s teachers had taken my children on a trip in that heat yesterday then I would have been saying “Thank you for today, I bet you’re ready for a cold drink tonight.”

If you read the replies rom teachers on here, you'll see that we have all "used a bit of common sense" and offered extra opportunities and given extra reminders.

Ive stood in front of children and said, "It's 32 degrees outside today. Your body needs water. Have a drink."

But I still can't force them to if they choose not to.

I would expect there to be scheduled stops on the walk there and back for a drinks break. I'd also expect them to have had a lunch break at the museum where they would be encouraged to eat and drink.

If you're saying that this didn't happen and your child wasn't given the opportunity to drink all day then, yes, they were negligent.

But, I think we all know, that this almost certainly did happen and your DD made the choice not to drink her water.

Are all the other children in the class in a similar position today with dehydration /heat stroke? That'll be a clue as to whether it was a teacher level problem or just your DD not listening/doing as she was told.

Did you DD specifically say there were no water breaks, no reminders to put hats on, to take their bottles to drink(even if no one told her specifically ).Did no one else drink/wear a hat?

Of course they did. What are the odds of having a crap teacher and a crap TA. The Y6 teacher in the class next to me yesterday is a man and not a parent and thus maybe doesn’t think about these things as perhaps a parent might. I did hear him remind the children but maybe not as much as I would about drinking etc but you can bet your bottom dollar I heard his TA reminding them 4 billion times!

As a teacher, considering the heat and the amount of walking involved, I would have taken public transport instead yesterday (if available) or just pulled the trip altogether. From a health and safety perspective, doing a 40 minute walk in over 30 degree heat with young children is really not advisable.

I also think 8 year olds are not especially independent or full of common sense, so if I had been mad enough to have gone ahead with the trip, I would have stopped every 10 mins or so on the walk to have a mandatory rest and drink before moving on.

Children can't regulate their body temp as well as adults and dehydration and heat stroke are serious risks you'd have to consider as part of a risk assessment for a trip involving so much walking in 30 degree heat. The teachers should have put in place actions to mitigate those risks.

So if the rest breaks and time for drinking en route weren't enforced, then you'd have an argument that the school were neglectful. If your daughter didn't drink when directed to do so, then I don't see what else you could expect them to do.

Having worked in a school, I would have expected the trip to go ahead but (at 8 years old) hats and suncream to be non-negotiable, so I'm surprised she didn't wear a hat. I also agree that water breaks should have been scheduled, but that they couldn't force children to drink - but surprising she didn't have any?

OP you won't get anywhere with this.

Next time, change the post to say MIL took her and see the difference in response.

I think your child is old enough to drink when thirsty, but I do also think that it's quite easy to see when a child isn't wearing a hat. Also perhaps the child felt unable to stop to get water out of their bag etc? Have a chat with the teacher from a position of good faith and see what they say.

Presumably you reminded her to drink water and wear her hat before she left?
If she ignored you then she has probably also ignored her teachers.