To think the school were neglectful?

[frogshead]

Dd (8) went on a school trip yesterday in a heat wave, 40 minutes each way walking to and from a museum.

I sent dd with 2 bottles of water and she didn’t drink either of them and a hat which she didn’t wear.
She arrived home with a headache and has had diarrhoea since.

I know this was partly down to her but she is juts a child and nobody encouraged her to wear her hat or drink anything all day.
I applied sun cream before she went so at least she had that.

Because someone disagreed with you? The law would also disagree with you about them being old 'enough'. You should know that.

The bit where you can easily police 30 kids and manage it

Explain how.

There would never have been 1 adult to 30 kids.

I've been a Girlguiding leader for longer than that, was on a trip out Saturday which was outdoors for several hours with leaders who've done a hell of a lot more years than that

We reminded the girls to drink, offered extra water and told girls to wear a hat. We don't know how much any girl actually drank because we didn't stand there, staring them down as they drank.

Which they did. Because it was hot and they know to drink and they can't usually be stopped from drinking anyway.

As for hats, if they keep taking them off then again, they'll realise the consequences themselves. We've taught them Slip, Slap, Slop. They were putting suncream on all day.

None of the girls got ill, got heatstroke or even moaned about the heat particularly.

So you can't actually explain how you would do it is what I'm getting....

No, you're right, they wouldn't have lost anything...apart from all the teacher's time spent planning the trip, filling in risk assessments, arranging other staff/parents to come and help, informing parents in advance and getting consent forms back.

Not to mention talking about it and planning the day with the children and organising teaching plans so that the visit fits into the plan, plus arranging so that the children don't miss out on other subjects that would have been taught that day.

The museum would have planned for a visiting school group and had probably arranged for a member of staff to give a talk or guide them round, and there would be a separate room where the children could leave their things and go to to eat their lunches.

None of the girls got ill

Good for them. This one did.

Your longevity doesn't really mean anything. Whether you've been doing it 6 months or 60 years, if even one child comes to harm under your watch you have responsibility.

Walking in a heatwave increases risk. If that wasn't reflected in the risk assessment then that's on the supervising adult(s). Allowing children to 'realise the consequences themselves' as a standard of care is negligent in itself, especially with something like heatstroke which is both a known risk and potentially serious (I recognise it wasn't in this case but that only changes the outcome, not the principle)

Just imagine yourself standing in court and using those words as your defence.

I'm not sure why people are so reluctant to recognise ANY of the supervising adult's responsibility in this. Or refusing to acknowledge ANY room for lesson-learning about this incident. Duty of care doesn't transfer, no matter how much you think the 8-year-old is entirely responsible for their own health. Children need active guidance, not just reminders.

I've said several times! You want to make out it's an impossible task but it really isn't.

A scan of the kids every few minutes will tell you who's not wearing a hat. Use your words to instruct them to put it on. Done.

A stop every 5/10 minutes or so and watching the children in your group actually getting their water bottles out and seeing them drink. Done. It doesn't take as long to see kids have had a drink as you're trying to pretend! 10 seconds maybe? 20? Don't forget, an adult will have maybe 6-10 kids to supervise, this isn't a 1:30 situation.

Any child actively refusing to do either of those things, despite specific instructions and consequences (walking with the teacher, etc) - their parent gets informed. Done.

This one got ill because of her OWN choices

She didn't drink water. She didn't wear a hat. At 8 she will be well aware of both and the teachers will have been telling her to do so

The RA would have said "parents told to send children with hats and water bottles. Teachers to remind children to wear hats and drink"

Which they would have done

If any child showed signs of being dehydrated/ill they would have been asked if they'd drank, reminded to wear their hat, given more water

You wouldn't be sent down for a child being ill for not drinking if you reminded them and the RA covered them being reminded

Every 5/10 minutes?
So a 40 minute walk becomes a 50/60 minute walk as minimum?

Leaving them outside for longer?

One stop at 20 ish minutes when you found some nice shade would be plenty

And one way would likely to have been early morning so not too warm by that point anyway

But at least you've finally given an idea of a solution

(And as OP hadn't been back, we don't know if she knows DD wasn't drinking/wearing a hat because teachers went "DD might be feeling a little ill because she wouldn't follow instructions to drink and wear a hat" or if DD is saying "no I didn't drink or wear my hat")

@Hopoitygp having helped on a few school trips, I think the thing you're missing is that in every group (in my experience) there is at least one child with higher needs.

Last trip I helped on, I had a child with ADHD who kept trying to run off

One before, had one who was selectively mute so I had to ask him yes/no questions only and always make eye contact

One before that, one child had anxiety and needed to be close to me at all times

What it means is that you have to rely on the others to just follow instructions. It really takes away your capacity to individually monitor them

What it means is that you have to rely on the others to just follow instructions.

No, that's not what it means. That's not what it means in good practice and it's not what it means in law.

If you cannot capably supervise ALL the children in your group, the trip is not safe.

Which is exactly why my DC haven't been a school trip since pre-covid. I'd far rather parents like OP just teach their kids to wear their fucking hats

You can supervise them all, you just can't baby them all!

One stop at 20 ish minutes when you found some nice shade would be plenty

In a heatwave I'd disagree. Either way it's irrelevant - whether it's every 5 minutes or 20 minutes the actual active supervision, not just 'reminding', of a group of children drinking still applies and is not difficult. Neither is looking at them and noticing their hats aren't on.

Those should still be done, no matter the interval you want to set.

Dear God. There's absolutely no need to stop every 5 minutes. Counterproductive, keeping everyone in the sun longer. Nobody needs to drink that frequently.

At 8 years old, an RA is going to allow them to be somewhat unsupervised

You can indeed rely on a little "these children are old enough to know they need to drink with reminders from the adults"

You are not expected to hawk watch every child at every second

Reminders are plenty. Unless a child is unwell and requires further care then "have you all had a drink?" "Does anyone need a refill?" "We're going to stop for a minute, make sure to have a drink" are all plenty

Honestly the idea of stopping every 5 minutes is ridiculous

Kids can sip their bottles as they walk if they need a drink

40 minutes isn't even really that long.

This poster is acting like they were trekking the Sahara for 4 hours with no water supply at all

You can indeed rely on a little "these children are old enough to know they need to drink with reminders from the adults"

Quite clearly that wasn't true here so you can"t, in actuality, indeed rely on it.

Reminders alone are not enough - practically or in law, however much you want them to be.

You are not expected to hawk watch every child at every second

That's not what's being expected. You've made that extreme statement, not me.

Quite clearly not. The evidence in front of you would suggest you're mistaken.

What law dictates the level of supervision schools must provide for water consumption?

You're focussing on the wrong thing. The absence of active supervision, whatever the interval, is the point.

Agree.

I don't think my 8yr old would without direct reminders

Okay, so why didn’t you tell her to wear her hat and keep hydrated before she left? Why is it the teachers job and not yours?