When ‘tradition’ becomes a clear display of hatred

[WhereIsMyJumper]

Am I being unreasonable to be aghast at the bonfires in NI? Burning the tri-colour as well as an effigy of a migrant boat. How can this be referred to as ‘tradition’??

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/firefighters-take-two-hours-to-extinguish-controversial-bonfire-topped-with-migrant-boat-and-irish-flag-in-co-tyrone/a1274789953.html

Well of course things have happened. What are you referring to?

I wish I could say the same about the paramilitary controlled hatefest here. Unfortunately they do kill Catholics. The most heinous example being the murder of the Quinn brothers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_the_Quinn_brothers

I don't "think" I'm superior

i know I am.

FFS. We get it. You don't like immigrants. There is an endless number of threads, forums and sites where you can shite on about that to your hearts content. This thread is about the bonfire in Northern Ireland which you are unashamedly ignorant about in every conceivable way.

Effigies have a powerful resonance in real life, they are not just a random mix of straw and old clothes.

In a society already fraught with sectarianism and (increasingly) violent antipathy towards migrants, creating and burning such a thing in a public place is incendiary in the extreme. It's stirring the pot.

"It's really not that awful"?? Jeez.

Well they say ‘there’s no harm in it’ but let someone go burn an effigy of someone in one of the orange order uniforms and see how harmless they think it is then.

I’d like to see the reaction if Nationalists made an effigy of King Charles and burned it. Will that be harmless too?

Well, quite, we'd never hear the end of it then.

In Goldthorpe South Yorkshire a coffin containing an effigy if Thatcher was burnt after having a noose tied round it's neck in 2013. And there were celebrations round and about. Think they should have made that a tradition.

That is your opinion 🤷‍♀️
In my opinion effigy burning is really not a terrible thing compared to harming someone physically.
I don’t get an overwhelming urge to kill Catholics every bonfire night 🙄

The internment bonfires literally had multiple pictures of the queen on them. You can do a quick Google you know.

Both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to it.

It's hate, pure and simple. The English behaved disgustingly in Ireland for centuries. It's to be ashamed of, not glorified.

What makes you more superior?

Yeah, there’s been lots of effigy burnings of different people.
Perhaps that’s why it’s really not a big thing to many. Kind of loses its meaning when it’s been an annual activity for centuries

Why should English people be ashamed of something they were never part of?

Will you stop trolling please.

I agree. Northern Ireland is literally based on childish political point scoring, don't mess with my fleg, that's my culture.

I think of efficiency as symbolic. And can't quite find it in myself to get riled up about it.

The boat was clearly meant to make a statement, it did. It got people talking.

It wouldn't be my personal choice of how to go about it but I won't spit teeth about it like some seem to want to.

I haven't read all the comments here but just wanted to say it's really great to see how many people see these bonfires and marches as deplorable displays of triumphalism over the occupied population, with a side helping of racism where possible. And are appalled that the BBC reports on them like they're 'culture' and 'festivals'.

A few years ago there was a spate of suicides in a nationalist area of Belfast called the Ardoyne. One of the bonfires that year had a sign saying 'up the Ardoyne bungee jumpers'. Anyone defending this as their culture needs to take a look at themselves.

Oh, and if you showed up at an 11th night bonfire and called the people there Irish, you might find out just how close the relationship between burning effigies and physical violence actually is. Or you could just ask the refugees in Ballymena.

This is not Irish culture. It's loyalist violence, given a thin veil of acceptability by the BBC calling it culture. Now why would the British Broadcasting Corporation want to do that, I wonder ... 🤔

@rubyhiker 'Northern Ireland is literally based on childish political point scoring,'

It’s easy to call it childish when you’re looking from the outside. Honestly, calling it “childish” oversimplifies decades of deeply rooted issues. Northern Ireland’s politics are messy, sure, but it grew out of real struggles — people were demanding basic rights, not trading playground insults. The history is complex, painful, and yes, at times frustrating, but dismissing it as point scoring ignores everything people went through just to be treated fairly.

Nah, wasn’t anything to do with religion so wouldn’t have gained any traction

I'm not looking from the outside. I'm born and raised her to a nationalist Catholic north belfast family. And I married a protestant and live in a protestant estate.

I see both sides and I dislike them both. My family and my in-laws have stories upon stories of the horrors they went through. I still remember police check points and bomb scares.

So if you don't mind I'll stick with my opinion that for the most part it's a stupid mix clan warfare and political point scoring.

Not even sure how I quoted myself. I'm assuming you'll guess that's in response to yourself Errahstop

Maybe I misinterpreted your statement. I agree that much of the bluster and rhetoric, flag waving and marching etc is childish but you said that NI itself was based on childish point scoring which I cant agree with.

That's absolutely grand. I can live with us not agreeing.
I just wish our country could do that a bit more within our communities.

It’s easy to dismiss the bonfire crowd as just thick or thuggish, but the reality’s more complicated and, in some ways, even more tragic. Many of those taking part are genuinely disenfranchised, though often through systems and loyalties of their own making. If you see some of the rougher ends of loyalist West Belfast you would get your eyes opened. It's utter deprivation. Even when it's not July there are half burnt pallets lying about on open spaces and grown adults shuffling about aimlessly in the daytime when most people are at work.

For decades, they had a clear identity, one rooted in dominance, in being the gatekeepers of jobs, power, and public life while Catholics were systematically shut out. That imbalance has (rightly) shifted but nothing coherent has replaced the sense of superiority they once revelled in at the expense of Catholics. Westminster hasn’t cared about loyalist working-class communities for a long time - why would they? And into that vacuum comes rage with no power to direct it upwards. Migrants have become the new scapegoat and are easier to blame than the British state they still pledge loyalty to, even as it barely acknowledges them.