AIBU to expect people to have actual facts when they argue a point?

[goldenquestion]

Honestly, I don’t mind a difference of opinion — debate is healthy. But I’m finding more and more that people will argue something confidently with zero evidence or any real idea what they’re talking about. Then when you ask for sources or challenge it, they either go quiet or get defensive.

AIBU to think if you’re going to push a strong opinion (especially on serious topics), you should at least have something to back it up? Or am I just expecting too much from the internet?

Yes but not me.

You're not being unreasonable to expect it but I'm afraid you won't get it 😢

I know what you mean. Often their response to a challenge is something along the lines of "Well, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to have an opinion!" Err yes, but not all opinions are valid, and I'm equally entitled to not respect your opinion!

Are you new to Mumsnet? Facts are an optional extra.

I would say "No you are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can defend."

Yes, someone told me people can literally change sex the other day. When I asked them for any evidence of this medical miracle, they refused to furnish me with it because my mind was made up and no amount of evidence would change it...um, no. If peer-reviewed science shows something to be the case, then I will absolutely believe it.

Then, there's my local anti-vaxxer who does pretty much the same thing, although they will occasionally post some "evidence" from a random blog, and if that isn't enough evidence for you, they'll just call you stupid and ignorant.

This, all day long.

I’m fairly knowledgeable about lots of things but there’s even more that I’m not quite so knowledgeable about. I’m also mindful that being fairly knowledgeable often isn’t quite enough when debating an issue so won’t wade in with my size 5’s.

I think the trouble is, there is so much rubbish out there online that you can pretty much find "data" and "facts" to shore up any old ridiculous notion.

I think social media has a lot to answer for on this. Someone spouts a load of old shit and because they get likes they think it validates their shit and therefore they must be right

No you are not being unreasonable. Too many people think they can spout bullshit and claim the right to free speech equates to the right to try and stop anyone calling their bullshit out.

NEWS FLASH: The right to free speech merely means you cannot be arrested for voicing an opinion (hate speech and inciting violence excepted). It does not mean no-one is allowed to challenge your opinion, in fact, directly or indirectly claiming it does equates to trying to suppress other people's right to voice an opinion on your opinion. If you can't take your opinions being challenged, best keep them to yourself.

That is where the scientific method and critical thinking comes in.

But that’s not true. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. The strength of its validity depends on facts and their ability to defend it.

Truth of the matter is that very few issues have a clear right or wrong; barely any issue is black or white. Anyone speaking with absolute certainty about almost anything is deluded!

This pretty much sums it up.

To be fair, much of the stuff on AIBU is subjective rather than objective, and even then, even accounting for the man-bashing bias, I'd estimate around three quarters of responses to posts are at least reasonable if not decent IMO.

Yes this is how I feel, I'm confident on the things I know, but wouldn't start trying to lecture a virologist on vaccines for example!

It's a shame that people don't have the confidence to say that they don't understand. And they don't get that admitting that would be more admirable.

My exMIL was once trying to discuss some aspect of politics with me and I replied that I couldn't give an opinion as I didn't understand and was not in possession of the facts. She loved that and has never forgotten it! She lived with family would would argue that black is white, so that's probably why she admired me for it!

This!! You can't have an opinion if it contradicts a fact!

Yes, yabu, this is the Internet, therefore you're dealing with people and bots and so it's unrealistic to expect it.

Of course you can. A single fact is highly unlikely to define a whole issue.

Exactly, I can't understand why people don't want to open their minds and learn. Especially if they're so het up and angry over something they have wrong.

Hold on! Lots of people hold opinions that are factually incorrect! Doesn't mean they aren't entitled to it!

If I say the sky is blue and you say "in my opinion its red", you're wrong and your opinion is totally irrelevant.

We can have different opinion of the same fact "I like the blue sky/I hate the blue sky". But the sky remains blue.

The sky isn’t always blue.

Welcome to the post-truth world🙄

They aren't entitled to argue a factually incorrect opinion is correct?

opinion doesn't change the fact.

They can sit with their incorrect thoughts, but to form a judgement on an issue and argue its merit based on incorrect information is ridiculous.