AIBU to expect people to have actual facts when they argue a point?

[goldenquestion]

Honestly, I don’t mind a difference of opinion — debate is healthy. But I’m finding more and more that people will argue something confidently with zero evidence or any real idea what they’re talking about. Then when you ask for sources or challenge it, they either go quiet or get defensive.

AIBU to think if you’re going to push a strong opinion (especially on serious topics), you should at least have something to back it up? Or am I just expecting too much from the internet?

Well we can start a discussion on what is considered facts. Research is not facts, as the whole point of research is to debate other research.

There are some established facts 'earth is not flat' but most arguments are about matters where facts are really not a lot more than opinions.

"It's illegal to open post that isn't addressed to you".

Yes, as I've said poor example. But being colour blind doesn't change the colour of something anymore than being blind changes it. It changes that persons perception of the fact, but not the fact itself (and I know the sky is a bad example of this, replace sky with yellow car).

At the fundamental level of the universe there are no facts at all.

Everything is merely a probability.

It is isn't it?

(Not something I'm going to argue, assumed it was but have 0 facts on it, so this is a perfect example!)

Of course there are facts.

Standard universal credit allowance is £400.14 per month if you are single and aged 25 or over. Indisputable. I have two arms and two legs. Indisputable. I drove my car to work today. Indisputable.

Or am I being daft 🙈

I agree OP but you can’t argue with stupid and when someone makes up their mind about something, like the flat earth people for example, no amount of actual facts can change their mind.

I have stopped having any kind of deeper than surface level conversations with my parents, siblings and inlaws as they are so terribly influenced by the media they just come out with the most random shite imaginable and because it was in ‘The Sun’ then it’s a fact, end of.

Oh this drives me mad.
I work in a job that requires me to fact and source check. And because of that, I dont like to assume I am right without all the facts, so if someone has different factual evidence to support an opposing opinion then I do genuinely want to be able to look at that evidence for myself! This makes people uncomfortable. And they will just go on the attack about your view instead, which I find very strange given that I do not express my opinions by attacking the other person's.

I've done this before with a colleague, I can't remember the topic, I think it might have been the Palestine issue.

She was saying that it's horrific what Israel was doing to them; I countered with I don't know enough about the political situation to say who was in the right, or if Israel had any legitimate reasons to do what they did or not.

I was countered with "So you support Israel then? You must have an opinion!"
Well, no, I don't know the political situation, I can't possibly have an informed opinion at least so a regular ass laymans opinion is largely worthless.

I have found with a lot of emotionally charged arguments that if you say you don't have enough information to comment then "oh, so you don't agree then?" or " you think think (whoever the opposition to the argument) is correct?" No, I just don't have the information to comment you tit!

It depends on the time of day.

Red sky at night? Shepherds Delight.
Red sky in the morning? Sailors warning.

It's not always blue so... Nerrrr!

we've had this conversation

Using the examples you have given:
SUC in the UK is that amount. Elsewhere it may be different.
Two arms and legs become ‘bras’ and ‘jambes’ in French.
Do you own the car outright? If it’s financed, technically it doesn’t belong to you.

That’s the point. There are actually very, very few FACTS. Almost all things are nuanced.
And often it’s those who insist on facts who fail to appreciate any nuance and end up spouting the most drivel of all.

<I’m going to stop now as I do risk becoming that belligerent fool I referenced earlier! 😂>

This is so true. Lots of people with ridiculous views think free speech means they can spout whatever they like and not be challenged by other members of the public.

Universal Credit is a UK benefit. There may be other methods of financial support in other countries but not Universal Credit. If someone calls to enquire how much UC they'll receive next month and I start quoting RSA rates from France, it would be incorrect.

Language changes, the facts don't. The number of limbs I have remains the same, whichever language you use to describe it.

Yes I own my car outright

And yes, these are all incredible examples of the kind of thing that drive me potty 😂

😂😂😂
Take a chill pill. The sun is shining (where I am right now, anyway! 😂). Enjoy 🥂

Statistics can be facts or fiction on occasions

Love the words 'actual facts'! One only has to read many posts on this and other sites to realise that 'actual facts' tend to be those that fit a person's opinion!

Even such 'actual facts' as 1 + 1 = 2 are open to question.
So many people provide 'actual facts' which are often statistics from an agreeable website and that's all.

The same statistics can be used to 'prove' diametrically opposed theories too. I think it was in 'How To Lie With Statistics' that readers were told 'give me your raw data, tell what you want me to prove, and I'll prove it'!

Facts are sooo 20th century @goldenquestion. Nowadays it's all about Confirmation bias and resistance to facts.

You do not sound unreasonable, but I have seen it misused too. Ask for facts and sources after someone said the easiest thing to google, latest news just published or plain common sense. It is annoying when it is misused, many times just plainly intentionally to attempt to burden a poster whose view is opposed to theirs. Not because the poster did not know or had not heard of that piece of information.
So, it can go both ways.

Statistics are an interpretation of the facts.

very true its like when people debate etc