... to think that Nigel Farage will be our next PM?

[ohime]

Or, more accurately: AIBU to be afraid that truly nasty piece of work Nigel Farage who has, by all accounts, always been utterly useless at (or at least completely uninterested in) the actual business end of governing will be our next PM because everyone is so fed up with all the other parties being, variously or all at once, so corrupt, incompetent and useless that we've collectively abandoned all hope? I will never vote for Farage, who is a horrible man, or any of his party which keeps having to fire people for being just a teensy bit too overtly racist - but it seems from the polls that for many people the choice against the status quo outweighs what we may be choosing. (For an example, I can't believe that Farage's stated position that DOGE in the US didn't go far enough with its swinging cuts to the social safety net would be popular with UK voters who recently elected a government on the basis that it would reverse years of Tory austerity... not that that's worked out so well...)

Might I suggest you watch this with an open mind. You will (in the words of the left) "educate" yourself in what is actually happening. We have lost.control.

Not France. Their country of origin.

You've misread my post.

Very true. We are run by a human rights lawyer after all. And have a particularly interesting Attorney General.

A handful went to Ireland but boat crossings did not reduce.

Illegal migration was not at the levels we are seeing now or under the Tories, the highest yearly amount was under Sunak.

Rwanda, if it had happened, would have taken about 2% of all boat crossings, so 98 out of 100 people crossing would have remained in the UK.

Sunak of course could have delayed the GE, got Rwanda up and running and won the election.... but he knew it was a bat shit policy.

The only solution is International agreement, with France, on returns to other couuntries and breaking up criminal gangs but it will not be quick.

Leaving the EU, as Chris Philp said very clearly, has hampered attempts to return migrants.

You and others can dismiss this for your own political ends but he really should know.

UK consumer confidence up again!

We’d need a mandate too. Which may well be in place at next GE.

Is Farage any worse that any other politician/party though, when they keep telling us they are going to reduce immigration, but make no or little effort to do so ?

Or worse that parties who tell us they are going to deliver better and wonderful services without any tax rises ?

Or year after year politicians promising they will deliver on housing, then never building the numbers they said they were going to ?

The whole of politics appears to be pretty untrustworthy at the moment.

People don't really trust any of the main parties to deliver, which is why fringe parties like Reform can gain traction.

Eventually people just get so fed up of politicians going back on their promises they are willing to through the dice in the hope it may make things better.

People have unrealistic time scales, we kept giving the Tories chance after chance to improve things, they never did but now think Labour can turn things around inside 12 months.

The Tories, in some ways were very clever, they made sure that there were some large funding gaps, so PO &Blood compensation, public sector pay rises, the NI cuts, nothing set aside.....

Then shout "But you re in power now, deal with it"

So of course this, as you say, leaves the public disillusioned.

Labour did say they were the "grown ups" though. But they seem to be making things much worse rather than better. It's so odd. One wonders how much worse they can make things in the next four years. Quite a lot worse, given the far left is rearing it's ugly head.

We shouldn't be relying on the competence/good intentions of France. We need to be able to return illegals to their country of origin rather then back to northern France where they will just try again. Hence needing to leave or reform the ECHR. And have a good look at the decisions our judges are currently making.

What did he said that contradicts (factually).what I said about small boats and Brexit? Not what you think I think as a "lefty". But what I actually said?

I don't think people are wrong to be concerned about how immigration affects them. I don't think people are wrong to be concerned with the boats crossings (the fact this makes up a small percentage of overall migration doesn't mean politicians should ignore it)

But you said "educate yourself" as though there.was something in there which would turn what I think on its head. He didn't make any convincing case for Brexit not making the small boats issue worse.

What did you think of what he said? Overall?

I don’t think there is a convincing claim here.

If it was as easy as you say to use DA as a deterrent all the countries that still have it would use it that way.

Can you say why they choose not to?

Would you really want a terrible PM / government that would make your life worse, just to upset other people that you don't like?

"Illegal migration was not at the levels we are seeing now or under the Tories, the highest yearly amount was under Sunak."

This from the Telegraph.
"A record 20,600 migrants have crossed the Channel so far in 2025 alone, up around 50 per cent on the total at the same point last year and the biggest number in the first six months since the first arrivals in 2018. Nearly 44,000 migrants have arrived since Labour came into power in July last year."

Well done Labour.

Yes that was incorrect. It’s up this year.

Schengen
Also the other agreements we had on top

It must be really awful having noone listen to you. God, I can only imagine what that is like.

Just so people understand this, 20500 illegal migrants costs the tax payer just under 923 million a year.

I can't see inside his head but I don't think people like him really want solutions that work. They would rather be angry and enjoy the feeling of being under attack. Sorry. That's what I think

You what now? You were doing well there for a bit keeping the discussion courteous

Did you step on a Lego?

ETA no I don’t think that’s a factor, The asylum system is separate and the DA applies to all EU countries still.

Because I keep saying the same thing. It's gone to just not agree but why keep asking "why don't other countries benefit from the DA". I think we are just going round and round in circles.

This is why I question your belief in the DA as a deterrent. Look at these numbers for those still in it

In 2024 Germany has asked Bulgaria to take back 8,090 people who were registered as migrants for the first time on Bulgarian territory. Bulgaria has said it is responsible for 3,297 migrants, but in reality 290 people have been returned.

Italy was supposed to take in 12,841 migrants, but in fact it took in only three.

Other EU countries, which send the most migrants to Germany, are also taking in almost no people, despite being obliged to do so. Greece has taken in 22 people

It's not about the Tories or Labour, much as you would like it to be.

It's about both of them failing to do their job.

Both of these parties enable Farage/Corbyn.

If they were doing their job properly and delivering what the public wants then Reform wouldn't exist, in the same way UKIP pretty much ceased to exist.

Spot on, CleverButScatty, and that's why I mentioned that those who'll vote for anything that carries the right rosette will take a lot of shifting

I suppose Farage - and other minority parties? - could pick off enough swing voters to disrupt things though ...

Typo

I think tribalism took a dive last year. The overriding theme of the election was getting the Tories out and a lot of tactical voting went on to achieve that. The LibDems particularly benefited from it. If Reform hasn’t imploded by 2029 I suspect the tactical voting strategy may be employed to keep them out.

Having been a Labour voter all my life I’m disinclined to vote for a government that fails to reflect my views any more, it’s no longer my tribe. I may well vote Green next time.