... to think that Nigel Farage will be our next PM?

[ohime]

Or, more accurately: AIBU to be afraid that truly nasty piece of work Nigel Farage who has, by all accounts, always been utterly useless at (or at least completely uninterested in) the actual business end of governing will be our next PM because everyone is so fed up with all the other parties being, variously or all at once, so corrupt, incompetent and useless that we've collectively abandoned all hope? I will never vote for Farage, who is a horrible man, or any of his party which keeps having to fire people for being just a teensy bit too overtly racist - but it seems from the polls that for many people the choice against the status quo outweighs what we may be choosing. (For an example, I can't believe that Farage's stated position that DOGE in the US didn't go far enough with its swinging cuts to the social safety net would be popular with UK voters who recently elected a government on the basis that it would reverse years of Tory austerity... not that that's worked out so well...)

Ah. That explains it somewhat.

Could you tell us what they have done, and the changes they have made?

My daughter has all 3! She's voting reform! Don't think she got the memo for the dress code! 🤣🤣

Arrogance to boot. Tick. Usually the way. We'll say no more. You've proved your points nicely luckily.

What does "doing something about this" look like?

• renegotiate a returns agreement and information sharing agreement with france/the EU
• arrest gang ringleaders, disrupt gang activity
• disrupt money laundering activities linked to gangs
• get French police to sink more boats their end (you can't make them do it. It's a sovereign country so you have to ask nicely)
• process asylum claims faster and send back rejected claimants faster
• remove asylum seekers from the hotels that are costing a fortune and find alternative accommodation

Some of those things Labour are doing or at least claiming to do (but at least in some cases you can see they have done it. Smashing the gangs seems more nebulous). Keir gave that whole strangers speech which offended lots of people but I suspect failed to convince anyone who distrusted him on immigration. Time will tell if it makes a difference but anything other than 0 migration will be a problem for some.

Another poster suggested the "thing that must be done" could be concentration camps. Britain had done concentration camps before - during the Boer war. And public disgust was so large it brought down the government. Even if lots of people think they want a strong stance on migration they won't be able to stomach children in concentration camps. There will be a backlash the other way. Though I guess in the interim someone will.make lots of money and a lot of people will suffer.

Studies have proven that Reform voters are less educated than the voters of any other parties.

They have 4 mps. How do you foresee them forming a government do you think they can attain a majority?

I find you interesting to talk to but be fair, you were rude first with the ripped tights/blue hair comment and then the "that explains it" re University comment. And they responded with a quip about being educated. But you were condescending first.

The ones I speak to are mainly highly educated, degrees, masters, high ranking in their fields! ( Like I said my bubble is quite small) 🤷

Because only "educated Cambridge graduates" opinions matter. I've got you. Very loud and clear. For such a clever one, you're showing a stunning degree of lack of insight, a total dismissal of people's lived experiences, and chucking out blanket insults to a whole group of people : "racist" "bigot". But, you're the educated one aren't you, so that's ok. Thick white people (you're assumed audience ) are ok to hurl insults at. I'd love to see if you use the same tact for others groups of people. But of course you don't. Only works one way doesn't it, but repeating myself: you're the clever one (sigh)

I simply don’t believe they want to stop it, these people will be Labours future voters. If I’m wrong and they are trying to stop it, then they’re making it worse. Either way they will have to go and I can’t see them ever coming back,

Sorry, I couldn't help myself with the blue hair thing. As you were nice about it, I'll take my telling off graciously 😁

Although, I still stand by my points with that particular poster. She did get out the two rote shuts downs : "racist" and "bigot" to label all reform voters. It's that attitude that's making people silently seethe and worsens the rebellion in society.

Is it fair to blanket insult people with blue hair, septum piercings and/or tights you dissaprove of? You and Jennp have been calling people you disagree with "sneering lefty" AMD hysterical etc etc for a while. I dont think all Brexit voters/all reform voters are stupid. But that doesn't make it OK for you to call people that disagree with names or ensure they are out of touch with ordinary people (whats ordinary anyway? People who share your viewpoint? In assuming we all love and work in the same country)

Edited to say it wrote this before seeing your follow up!

I think in real life lots of real people living in the UK have different opinions on Brexit, Reform etc. I dont think it helps that someone who had different views has them because they are iuneducated/out of touch/drinks lattes/reads the Sun. People are more complicated than that and students with blue hair are as ordinary and as British as a 40 year old builder and vice versa

I don't recall saying those things ?

Look the blue haired thing was tongue in cheek. But perhaps in poor taste in a serious discussion. Sorry.

I have little doubt that Reform could win a majority one day.
I live in quite a rough area in the NW and they had Reform campaigners out the other day. The positive attention they attracted was worrying.
I now know several reform voters of all ages.
These would have been old school labour voters, who previously voted Labour and now disillusioned with the Tories, have gone over to Reform.

However, I don’t think Farage will be able to do the job as he’s a snake who wants the celebrity status but not to do an ounce of the work required to be PM, so will get out of it on some technicality.

Has he ever said he wants to be PM?

She didn't say any of those things. I think you are projecting, perhaps because you feel a little insecure in comparison.

Also, what makes you think that intelligent, well educated people don't have a wide range of lived experiences. I'm well educated and successful, I have children with disabilities, parents who are ill, had a difficult marriage breakdown. I've lived as a single parent, earlier in my career in an area with high levels of crime and deprivation.
What makes you think you have more life experience than anyone else?

And whilst I make no suggestions you personally are a bigot or racist, those behind reform have demonstrated many times that they are and you are supporting them.

As well as sounding rather pompous, you’re missing the point. Everyone has a vote in a democracy. So it’s irrelevant how educated/clever someone is - the vote of the “less educated” person counts just as much as the next person.

It’ll be cold comfort to Labour and Conservative sitting on election night saying “well at least the clever people voted for us” if Reform do get in.

That's what annoyed me about some labour supporters teeheeing because reform were attracting voters from the conservatives. Those voters used to be Labour before they went to the conservatives out of disillusionment. Labour should be trying to win them back. And what happens to people when they feel betrayed by the mainstream and reform? Where do they go then?

I just don't think trying to compete with Reform on immigration rhetoric will work. Saying "I know you working class types are a bit racist. I can be a bit racist too" won't work for Starmer. Farage can just get more extreme anyway.

But they are pulled from all directions - half the reform supporters on here think Labour betrayed the working classes and poor/disabled. He other half are furious that Labour are redistributing their cash to the feckless poor. And both groups think Garage will be an improvement. So at least half of Reforms supporters will be bitterly disappointed

Thanks for your response , but I too am "educated" (BSc, MSc - well not quite, still 2 modules to go!) i don't think that makes me better than working class people (I grew up very working class ) education and degrees do not make one experienced in life though. It also does not mean an automatic left wing vote. I'm centre , firmly centre. I used to understand both the left stance and the right stance to differing degrees. I now am understanding the far left less and less. There's so much intolerance for the centre/centre right.

I think it's possible.

I don't like NF, even on issues where I tend to agree with his general stance, I think he is more of a celebrity rather than someone who will work hard at politics.

But people are finding the main parties impossible to vote for. Eventually they will make a protest vote if it doesn't change.

I think that in the past there was a cultures of people who were less educated trying their best to understand. That is certainly true of the older generations in my family. And despite having left school in their early teens they made the effort to become informed and cast their vote accordingly.

However now the attitude seems to be to reject an idea because it is endorsed by that stuck up educated lot.

But in fact, do we want government policy that has been endorsed by those who are intelligent, and informed (whether by way of formal education or by making an effort to understand the facts) or do we really want government policies votes for by those who have no understanding of and are proud of that?

Is rejecting the ideas of those who are knowledgeable really desirable? ( I by that I mean knowledge gained in a whole range of ways, not just formal university education etc).

Everyone has a vote, but I find this cultural shift worrying, as surely it can't lead to effective policies that bring about positive changes.

Having worked my way to a senior role, I know first hand how challenging it is to implement changes across large organisations, never mind whatnot must be across a whole country. To be prepared for all the possibilities etc. So policies based on popularity with people proud to not know or care what the inner workings of the process is, is likely to be much harder to successfully implement and be successful.

It's like saying we want unfit, middle aged people in the army because they're like me and I don't want these arrogant young, fit types representing me. In life the people best suited to the job should be doing it. And if anyone objects shouting 'you're elitist' it's my country and army too.

The fact of the matter is that in many ways Reform looks more like old Labour than Labour does.

Berating traditional Labour voters for noticing doesn't come off well.

I did not say the degrees give you life experience. Life gives you life experience. And educated people live lives like everyone else. However having developed a high level of critical thinking skills certainly helps you see that experience as part of the bigger picture.

Of course educated people aren't one homogeneous group... There will be a range of political opinions etc. traditionally Tories were the most educated because only the wealthy could go to uni.

The labour of the late 1990s had a lot of people who grew up in working class backgrounds and had been to uni etc, hence the huge emphasis on investment in state education.

Without realising it, you have explained here how your understanding of your experience has increased as you have engaged with more critically demanding levels of education. University is not the only way you can do that o course.

Can you give examples of the policies you feel are similar, because I really disagree with that.