Anyone else lost a bit of ambition now they’ve been taxed to the brink?

[Peasontoastt]

I used to be extremely ambitious and was really eager to reach some sort of financial security. As a consequence, I’m in what’s considered a highly paid career, I work hard and it took me many years to train.

Just as I paid off my student loan (which took many years), I then had a baby and returned to work to be stuck with the childcare dilemma. I struggled through that phase and have come out the other side but being taxed so much, no child benefit, still paying for nursery even though dd has ‘free’ hours now. It’s likely that savings are going to be bashed next, so what’s the point in even putting anything aside when there’s likely going to be a 4K cap on ISAs.

I used to feel so ambitious and of course I know money isn’t everything, not by a long shot. But having worked my way up the ladder and with huge responsibilities only to feel penalised financially for doing so…what is the point? Yes I have more financial security than someone claiming benefits but equally, I am not being flippant when I say a few years of resting and being at home and being frugal is starting to seem so much more attractive. Has anyone else started feeling this way? I feel taken the piss out of by every financial angle!

There should be more social housing and I think people need to feel encouraged to have a stake in society. People are disengaged & fragmented now.

Yes this sums it up re low tax etc

I came here to chat about Mounjaro and look where it's got me 😁

As a nation people seem to want benefits

child benefit or winter fuel benefit, regardless of their income or wealth

Exactly this. I have sacrificed a lot for my career. The stress of studying, exams, responsibility and raising children has at times impacted on my health and relationships. Unlike a previous post, I am not motivated by paying more taxes.

child benefit or winter fuel benefit, regardless of their income or wealth

child benefit isn't universal, it used to be of course but not now.

There are too few net contributors, which is why our public services are such a mess.

We have always had a low % of net contributors what has changed is the demographics. Years of under investment in public services haven't helped.

I never understand these threads about those on benefits.

Why aren’t you all frothing about the large companies who tax dodge? About the tech companies who didn’t pay £2bn of tax in the U.K.? What about Bezos who has just had a huge wedding in his multibillions but you still use Amazon, still buy Starbucks coffee, still use Facebook every day to tell Aunty Shiela about your holiday to Malta with your 157 photos that no one cares about.

Why is it always ‘let’s kick the disabled’ and not ‘let’s boycott the huge companies that tax dodge and make a real dent in this country’?

I say this as someone whose husband is on £54k. People get angry but with the wrong sector. Let’s get really fucking angry with those who really deserve our vitriol. But nah, because Keith from number 32 may or may not have a dodgy back.

It’s not as simple as a choice between paying tax or living on benefits though, is it. That’s a facile way of looking at it. It’s a choice of how much work to do and what sort. We need people to be able to earn decent salaries, to generate tax income to fund the state. But if too much of people’s income is taxed, they’ll do less work. Just look at how many people actively reduce their PAYÉ earnings to below 100k to avoid the effective 62% tax/NI at that level, before you consider loss of other benefits.

We also need people in this county incentivised to start and grow businesses. But that comes with risk. For the risk, we rightly expect to be able to make a return. If the level of tax is such that the return is too small, then why bother.

But just consider the impact of fewer small businesses. Take a business turning over £10m in VATable products / services, employing 20 people on £40k. Straight away you’ve got £1.7m of that £10m going to HMRC in VAT. Then you’ve got roughly £120k going in employers NI, and £160k in PAYE and employees NI. So now 20% of all money going through the companies bank account goes to HMRC. Assume it makes a generous 10% net profit on that £10m, and another £250k goes to HMRC in corporation tax. So now almost 23% of the money going through the company goes to HMRC. And if those profits generate a £1m dividend a further £330k ends up with HMRC. So now the small business has generated over £2.5m for HMRC.

Then consider that 60% of private sector employment is in SMEs, and you see why this governments actions (I won’t deign to call them polices, because there is no plan) at doing such damage to our productive capacity and tax revenues.

More old people = more net recipients

Why aren’t you all frothing about the large companies who tax dodge? About the tech companies who didn’t pay £2bn of tax in the U.K.? What about Bezos who has just had a huge wedding in his multibillions but you still use Amazon, still buy Starbucks coffee, still use Facebook every day to tell Aunty Shiela about your holiday to Malta with your 157 photos that no one cares about.

People like buying cheap.

@Gagcaa

I’m from an area where, particularly when she was younger, you work in production/industry, or you move. It’s not known for it’s opportunity. She was also only 16, she’s worked there for 47 years.

Besides that, if nobody worked in those factories and produced food, what are we all eating? If nobody puts that food on shelves, how are you getting it?

This very obvious job snobbery removes the also obvious fact that if we all were factory owners or managers, there’s nobody on the production line. Who’s taking their places. You? Didn’t think so.

Lots of these things can be automated anyway. Like in supermarkets. Refuse collectors, if no-one did it you could probably just pay for a private company to collect it. Factory work is getting more and more automated

I think this country is going down a road where shortly phrases like ‘check your privilege’ and ‘be grateful’ thrown around in an attempt to silence the dwindling number of net contributors, will just be ignored or loudly challenged.

It’s ridiculous people can’t even politely question why they are high earners on paper, increasingly struggle to to see the benefits, and keep being asked to give more, without the usual ‘check your privilege, some people can’t afford milk!’ responses.

@SunnyFTM567 where did you move?

I stick it all in pension so I hopefully won’t need to work until I drop I’m 67.

An option, to retire early-is as now struggling post menopause and every year it seems harder, I know I am very privileged and thankful I have as many women don’t.

wish I had started AVCs much earlier

There is a shortage of water lumbers and electricians, presently you can walk from one job to another

with the amount of building needed and builders selling off plan to investment companies, this is going to continue for at least another decade

Are you a lone parent? How old are your children?

We have a lot more elderly people now. More than half of DWP expenditure is on pensions and related benefits.

Those private companies would have low paid employees. And we haven't yet found an AI way to look after vulnerable people in care.

A private refuse collection company would still need to employ people and would pay pay them even less. We have barely any manufacturing left in this country. You can’t automate care, hospitality, shelf stacking, cleaning or a whole raft of poorly paid jobs.

As of 2023 the number of combined voters of Gen X and Milllenial age exceeded older people. The younger demographics need to start exercising their vote to rebalance.

Triple lock must go and that money diverted into broader social care. Starmer should never have wobbled - he should have stood ten toes down on the removal of WFA - that money could fund childcare. £100k tax cliff for nursery funding should be removed.

Bring back some of Truss’s and Kwartengs plans (not everything they wanted to do was crazy and I say this as a Labour voter). This includes removal of IR35. Remove caps on bankers bonuses. Incentivize people to push higher.

I know a childfree 35 year old healthy woman who has never worked more than 2 days a week so she doesn’t lose UC or the social housing flat she took over from her deceased mother. No country can sustain this.

I know a childfree 35 year old healthy woman who has never worked more than 2 days a week so she doesn’t lose UC or the social housing flat she took over from her deceased mother.

She’d keep her flat regardless of income and how is this any different to someone limiting their hours to reduce their tax bill?

Because one person is dependant on the state and other isn't. That is completely different

I was curious so found this from the Institute of Fiscal Studies.
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-internationally

I think one of the key difference is that National Insurance is now more or less a second income tax. I think changing this up so it directly reflects benefits e.g. health (plus move to a different health care model say similar to Germany or France) then a larger increase would be much more palatable to swallow as people would directly benefit from what they put in. When it all just appears to go into a black hole, then people don’t realise how it’s spent and end up resentful.

Reading though, I didn’t realise we lost ground with taxation in the 70s and have never caught up. I’ve not researched longer term demographics either, currently we have the baby boomers in retirement and there are not enough workers to support the pressures on pension, health and social care. There are several new care homes being build where I live, and I realised it’s because of the number of baby boomers who are going to need them. What I would like to see modelled is the UK after a decade or so, what will our taxation and spending going to look like then, is this short term pain while our demographics shift, or do we need a different model completely.