To think someone with an assault conviction shouldn’t be working for the NHS

[PillockLarkin]

I had to go to the A&E department in my local town at the weekend. I was really surprised to see a man who I know has a conviction for Assault by Beating working at the hospital as a porter. I don’t know him but went to school with him and remember it being reported in the papers, it was about 6 or 7 years ago.

I understand that having a criminal conviction does not preclude you from working from the NHS but I was thinking that would be for a less serious offence, like unpaid parking fines or something.

I doubt he could have faked a DBS check so must have declared his conviction to the hospital and been allowed to work for them.

I’m all for second chances but I’m really surprised that someone can work the NHS despite having a criminal conviction for violence. AIBU?

A lot of hospitals don't employ porters directly, it's one of the growing numbers of roles that is often contracted out. No idea what rules those companies have with DBS etc

YANBU but I also know someone with an ABH charge who is working as a carer and works in care homes. There must be some discretion exercised by employers but I always wonder if their clients know.

I'm surprised you're surprised. It's not ideal, but you presumably know people aren't queueing up for poorly paid, in person, physically demanding work that, ironically, probably comes with a higher than average chance of assault. Sometimes, recruiters aren't in a position to be fussy.

He isn’t going to beat up a patient in the hall. Either we get formal criminals into work, and unskilled jobs like a porter and often the only sorts of work they can do, or we support them on benefits.

Jobs mean a lower chance of reoffending. Being integrated into society means a lower chance of reoffending. Having friends and an income and all of that, means a lower chance of reoffending.

I have no issue with someone with a criminal past working as a hospital porter, or any other kind of job that doesn’t require enhanced disclosure for the safety of children or the elderly. And even then, I think circumstances should be taken into account. Why did they commit the offence they did? How long ago? What sort of situation were they in? Discretion should be used.

He won’t have access to anyone without other people being all over the place.

A conviction is considered spent after a certain number of years depending on the sentence. Some will still show up on an a DBS, but with the exception of a small number of sentences for a small number of offences, it’s up to individual employers to decide whether or not they employ somebody (and can be considered unlawful discrimination if they use the conviction as a exclusion when it shouldn’t be considered good enough reason to exclude.)

If you believe in second chances then surely this is one. Plenty of offenders are rehabilitated and never offend again.

Battery doesn't carry a long custodial sentence, he might not even have received a custodial sentence at all. Either way, if it was 6-7 years ago, it is long spent and will no longer show on a standard DBS. I don't know why you think it's more unacceptable for him to work for the NHS than in any other public facing job.

It's also possible the conviction is now spent, depending on the sentence.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rehabilitation-periods

Do you think all rehabilitated offenders should live together in a cave?

What do you want ex-offenders to do, who are trying to live a different life?

"I’m all for second chances". No you're really not.

Of course not.

I was however surprised that someone with a violent conviction is working as a hospital porter for the NHS which involves working with vulnerable people. It didn’t sit right.

I wouldn’t have been surprised nor thought it inappropriate in a wealth of other jobs but I don’t think it’s right when he is dealing with the vulnerable.

YABU.

He has a conviction. He’s obviously done his time, and he’s now trying to make the best of his life and work. Why shouldn’t he be allowed to do that?

I am but appropriate ones.

Yep, he should be sent down the mines. Or something.

With attitudes like yours it's no wonder reoffending rates are so high. This man committed a crime, paid for it and is now back on track. What more do you want?

But you don't know him, OP. You know nothing about him now.

Not true.

He could be working as a director of a company or in banking for all I care. It’s the conviction for violence when working with vulnerable people that I am questioning.

Most hospital porters are employed by external agencies ... like the cleaners and the caterers

Where have you been since the 1980s

True but he was in his thirties when he did it. Not some youthful mistake.

I do think crimes of dishonesty are taken more seriously and hang around for longer. Whereas violent crimes seem to be shrugged off fairly quickly. I do wonder if it’s to do with victim demographics, traditionally the monied classes more likely to be victims of financial crimes and poorer people violent crimes.

Hospital portering is a very visible job, where he’s unlikely to be alone with a patient for any significant period of time. And the (likely) contractor employing him will have taken a decision based on the nature of the crime: somebody who e.g. assaulted a bloke during a pub fight whilst drunk years ago isn’t automatically somebody who will attack an elderly nan whilst he’s pushing her wheelchair between wards sober and rehabilitated.

Was his conviction for spontaneous violence against a vulnerable person though? Or was it a very different situation? There's obviously different situations, it's not clear cut. And if you believe in rehabilitation or second chances, you should understand that.

It doesn't matter.

What jobs do you think a rehabilitated former violent offender should be prevented from doing? All contact with the public? Forever?

What about when he is in his 50s, 60s?

very rarely people are turned down on those grounds for a job offer in nhs

It was an act of violence against someone older in broad daylight. Only have the newspaper report to go on but it was not some drunken brawl.