Am I that mum…?

[PineapplePrincess]

DS11 is going into his last year in junior School. In this year children apply and are selected as House Captains. There are four Houses, and eight Captains are appointed in total (two for each House). The normal assumption is that it is one boy and one girl per House.

This year however six out of the eight Captains are girls. I’m wondering whether to raise issue with the school.

I didn’t expect DS to get House Captain, but it’s been difficult to explain to him why the representation isn’t more balance, and how he stood a fair chance. I’ve obviously explained it will come down to the individual applications, criteria, etc and that this is good life lesson - life it’s not always fair.

I’m just gutted for him. He’s not a studious kid, he suffers from ADHD and school life is genuinely hard for him. In the last five years however, he has done so much to improve his behaviour and has got to a point where he is learning and applying himself. He used active examples in his application and interview on how he has progressed as well as demonstrated how he supports and cares for his non-verbal autistic sibling (guiding and supporting younger kids was a key area of focus for the application).

His end of school report card even stated that he ‘should actively look for examples to lead and take on additional responsibilities in the school’.

I didn’t expect him even to apply, as this would not normally be something he would put himself forward for. I just feel this crushing disappointment will deter him from ever doing anything similar in future.

I’m not looking for the school to reconsider. Just some explanation for me, so I can better understand and support DS.

But then I don’t want to be ‘that Mum’ either.

It's natural to feel disappointed but I think you're right in trying to use it as a life lesson. You could speak to the school and ask them to provide some constructive feedback on his application - given the fact that this was in his report as a recommendation and he tried really hard on the application, maybe some specific praise on what he did well would motivate and encourage him even though he didn't get the position.

‘They selected the best two people for the roles’ is the explanation you give him.

Surely it's just based on who is best for the position in any given year? Some years girls may out number boys and some years the boys may outnumber girls and some years more even. If there was a consistent pattern of one sex dominating over the other, year after year, then maybe there could be some sort of bias, but that doesn't seem to be the case from what you've said. In which case, I'd chalk it up to there just being more girls as strong contenders this year.

Yes you’re being “that Mum” - you’ve got no evidence at all that your son didn’t stand a fair chance or that selection was unfair, and I don’t think 3/4 of captains in just one year being girls is necessarily so unrepresentative you need to say anything.

Nor does it need to be a “crushing disappointment” - it is disappointing but he gave it a good go and it didn’t work out, that’s all. I’d encourage him to find other opportunities to demonstrate his responsibility and maturity. Could he take on responsibility for some other aspect of school life - at my DC school year six are in charge of the slides and sound deck for assemblies, furniture arrangements in the hall, monitoring the “buddy bench”, mentoring reception class, one of them has been in charge of KS1 fruit preparation and distribution etc etc. He sounds like he’s made a really good effort and you can be proud of him - don’t spoil it by picking an unwinnable argument with the school. For all you know they have him in mind for something else.

I can hear the love you have for him in your post, but leadership isn't sex-based, so the fact that there were 6 girls isn't a comment on your son, more a comment on a turning tide towards focusing on skills rather than sex.

I imagine it's not always possible to ensure it's equal. My son's year group only has a handful of girls so if they were selecting the 'best' child for a specific role they might end up selecting all boys because there are simply more to choose from.

Asking for feedback on where your son can improve to help him in future would be fine.

Complaining that the majority of positions went to girls and is unfair would absolutely make you 'that mum'.

I don’t see why it’s a gender issue? They pick the two best candidates for the job, as in life, it doesn’t matter whether those are male or female. He did stand a fair chance, everybody who applied had the same chance, it just so happens that the girls were the better candidates.

Ask how y you would feel if your ds was told he got the role, then because a parent complained, they took it away.

yes he's disappointed but it's a good chance to talk to him about the fact there will always disappointments in life and that he needs to learn to accept these, reflect on anything he could have done better and accept that sometimes he couldn't do any more but still couldn't f get what he wants. And to use the opportunity to show what a mature man he is by congratulating the people selected and for asking for feedback himself.

Maybe the applications were anonymised? That’s what happened in my school. You applied but those selecting didn’t know name or gender etc.

so they’ve just chosen the best applications?

I'm a primary teacher.

I wouldn't mind being asked this. Especially if it differs from the norm.

Parents enquiring or seeking clarification never bothers me.

Complaining without the facts, that's a different matter so just don't frame it as a complaint 😊

. He used active examples in his application and interview on how he has progressed as well as demonstrated how he supports and cares for his non-verbal autistic sibling (guiding and supporting younger kids was a key area of focus for the application).

Perhaps they believed that Mum had submitted the application? Assuming you weren't present for the application you simply don't know how he performed.

I’ve obviously explained it will come down to the individual applications, criteria, etc and that this is good life lesson - life it’s not always fair.

You have contradicted yourself here. You say it comes down to individual applications thus indicating there was most likely better ones but then say life isn't fair. It would not be fair for someone who submitted a better application than your son to not get the position by virtue of their sex.

Obviously he is disappointed on this occasion but it sounds like you may be more so.

but it’s been difficult to explain to him why the representation isn’t more balance

Good time to explain how for women it's usually the other way around. I don't mean this snarkily btw!

In previous years have captains been mostly boys?

OP, what exactly are you hoping to achieve here? The house captains have been picked, and for any one of a number of reasons, your son isn’t one of them. Unless only eight children applied, necessarily some will be disappointed. Don’t make it into a big deal for your son, or let him think that you’re disappointed. If usually they have an even split between boys and girls but this year they haven’t, I would assume there is a good reason for this. If you go in and complain, then you will assuredly be “that mother”.

I don’t get what your complaint is here, it’s not a gender thing by, they picked based on the best application.

Certainly a bit later on in Secondary for prefects many of those who were chosen had Alpha Mum campaigners behind them think ‘Amanda for prefect! She helps’ banner in house window close to school :) Obvs not real name. The convo in our house was ‘it doesn’t matter’ but privately I was surprised at the subtle yet performative campaigns by Mums & some bullies getting key roles but that’s life.

Disappointment is something we all need to learn. He won't get every job/position he applies for or wants. Nobody does.

I appreciate he has his difficulties and I really wish him good luck in the future, but I fail to see what you want to achieve by raising it with the school .

The school have selected the candidates that they thought best for the job unfortunately he just wasn't one of them. Why does it matter that they are girls? He wasn't one of the two boys chosen. End of.

I don't think you can contact the school - is it not selection by voting? Our schools captains and vice are all female except one for next session. Understand he will be disappointed but I would focus on the move to high school.and opportunities to lead there

This would be a good opportunity to encourage your son to politely ask.

Although I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "it will come down to the individual applications, criteria, etc"

You say life is not always fair, but this might actually be fair depending on the answer.

I think it’s great the school have gone with the 2 best applicants rather than adding a m/f balance into the equation. I think this would make it easier to explain to the unsuccessful candidates surely? It’s brilliant your DS went for it and agree with other PPs if he wants to know why his application wasn’t strong enough you could encourage him to ask for feedback, it’s likely the teachers would praise where he said some great things and it might boost his confidence. Overall though it’s managing situations like this well which will avoid you becoming a lawnmower parent.

My grandson is the kindest boy you could meet schools now pick on boys he got 10 A out of 12 exams but school is destroying him I am going to sell my house so he can go private school. He had girls from school theathing him walking round his house they did nothing my son is at end of thether he knows he can't kick there backsides

Thank you for the comments - these are helping wobble my head.

I do think (hope) that the school has gone with the best candidates. I just think it’s just unfortunate that they’ve not explained to the kids that it’s not a ‘head boy’ and ‘head girl’ approach to each house, as this certainly seems to be the expectation that I’m working against.

I’m also getting the challenge back if the numbers were the other way (i.e. in favour of the boys) would that be fair. And that would irk me somewhat too.

DS has also pointed out in the last five years (as far back as he can research) there has been no one from an ethnic minority appointed. We are from that background, hence why that is a factor.

(In terms of number, the boys outnumber the girls in the year - so I don’t think the awards are proportionate as some have suggested. Also positions were awarded by teachers and not peer votes.)

DS Y5 teacher couldn't stress to us enough how DS should put himself forward for the position of head boy in Y6. In Y6 he applied for school council and was successful, but there was a lot of competition for head boy and he lost out. It's just one of those things, I certainly wouldn't go back and repeat what the Y5 teacher told me.

As the school year went on they were so busy with preparing for SATs they barely had time to do anything with the school council or as head boy/girl anyway. Really they could have done without and it wouldn't have made a lot of difference.

Ah ok. I based my response on the concern that only 2 boys were selected. If you think there is an unconscious or conscious racial bias then yes this is worth raising. Perhaps you could frame it as making the school aware for the future / had they noticed the disproportionate representation over time.
For your DS I would just keep pushing the narrative that the best candidates won and that’s demonstrated by the fact that they didn’t pick 4 boys. I still think though that encouraging your son to ask for feedback is worth doing. It demonstrates to the school his willingness to learn, pushes them to give some valid reasons why he wasn’t successful and hopefully will also provide a lot of positive feedback which will help your DS feel better.

OP please don’t start accusing the school of sexism or racism when appointing house captains 🫣

Honestly, it’s disappointing for your DS now but, on the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter!

I get the idea you’re projecting this onto him as well and making him some sort of martyr if he’s researching the gender and ethnic minority split of house captains for the last 5 years 😳

Your DS probably cares more because you’re so obviously let down that he wasn’t picked. So brush it off, tell him you’re proud of his application and the others must’ve just stood out more for their own reasons and encourage him to focus on other things!