AIBU To complain to the school?

[ChippyTraybake]

Ok so bit of a long one, apologies.

pretext is, my DS is 12 at the end of year 7. He has high functioning ASD which mainly affects his anxiety he has in social settings, and he is a big worrier about certain things, other than that he gets on great. One big issue he has is that he is deftly afraid of public toilets and will do anything and everything to avoid them, including limiting food and water at school (I’m aware this is a big issue and we’ve got counselling for it). For him it’s a privacy thing and insecurity.

He had a school all-day trip to another city recently, he said he enjoyed it overall but he got upset over the fact that the teachers kept getting angry that every time they stopped for a big toilet break, my DS wouldn’t go with the other boys and instead would be the only one stood outside. He then said he genuinely didn’t need to go anyway (strong bladder) but the last place they went to before they got back on the bus, one teacher forced him (as in he had no choice) to go to a urinal with him along with everyone else to try for a wee which he feels humiliated by. Now I know the whole point of a urinal is that you go in front of others and don’t look at each other, and that the teacher no doubt meant well, but I feel like it could have been handled better. They treat him like a baby at school because he is a bit socially awkward, but he is mentally mature and independent.

I know my son has insecurities, and that that’s a whole issue I’m trying to work to help him with. Dad isn’t around so I don’t know the whole dynamic or ettiequte of male toilets.

They definitely should not have forced him to go to the toilet he is 12 not 2 if he says he didn't need to go that should have been it. I would have a word with school about it more of a you need to know chat rather than a complaint.

I do think though you need to work on this with your son it is not good to be holding in your urine it can lead to bladder infections and effect his control longterm

They were unreasonable in how they handled it but wanting them to go before they got on the bus for a longish trip isn't unreasonable. Perhaps sending him to the disabled would gave been better

Was there a plan in place of some kind to help the staff know how to manage this? If not, I think the teachers were doing their best to prevent embarrassment knowing that he hadn’t weed all day. If they weren’t given advice from you or a professional, they have to do what they can. It may not be perfect, but it wasn’t done with any bad intentions.

Did the teachers know that your DS probably wouldn't go for a wee with other people present? I mean at 12 he is like 10 years too old for an adult to be forcing or supervising him trying for a wee. That being said, if the teachers didn't know he was likely not to go all day, they must of been very confused/worried by it. Worried for his health and that he would have the embarrassment of wetting himself on the way home. There needs to be a clear plan that the teachers are aware of about whether he should be encouraged to go, forced to go or neither, and the teachers need to know what that plan is and that you and he have calculated and accepted the risks associated with that plan. (e.g. happy for him not to go and understand the potential health risks, or want them to insist he goes every X number of hours.)

Retired head of inclusion here; I agree there should have been a plan in place and at least one adult on the trip with responsibility for your sons needs.

I’m not sure I’d do a formal complaint but I’d be wanting a meeting and forming a plan for future trips. I’d make it very clear to them how your son experienced this and the impact that has had on his progress using public toilets.

Rather than make a complaint, could you remind the school about your son’s needs and that all staff who are with him need to be aware of them.

Was there also an issue of leaving him on his own if everyone else had traipsed off to the toilets?

What happens if your DS needs to go to the toilet and only public loos are available?

Could it be that they didn't have enough staff for someone to stand outside with him while everyone else went into the toilets? Or that all the male members of staff needed the toilet so needed him to go into the toilets as well for safeguarding? They can't just leave him outside on his own, that's the problem. It's a tricky one but I wouldn't complain tbh.

I take it the main issue was that he couldn’t stay outside on his own so needed to move with the group. It also doesn’t sound very healthy for him if he’s refusing water to avoid the toilet on a hot day. I definitely think it’s worth a chat with the school about how to handle trips going forward, if he needs a 1:1 or if he just really shouldn’t go if it’s all day and in summer for health reasons, but I wouldn’t complain per se, just a chat about his needs and future plans.

It’s an ongoing problem that the SEN team treat him like a baby because he’s quiet at school and will let people outspeak him (which is a problem in itself). I have spoken to them before and they just don’t seem to get it. I do think having a word rather than ‘complaint’ is better yeah.

I fully agree, we’ve been working through it through talking therapy and now slow exposure therapy.

Get your kid a radar key and help him to identify and use the disabled loos. It saved my ASD DD14s sanity! She cannot use communal public toilets and would rather not drink all day than be forced to use a loo in a room other people can enter.

I can't imagine a scenario where a member of staff goes into urinals with the pupils?

Surely that's a massive safeguarding red flag, regardless of your sons situation.

There is one teacher one knows DS well and is aware of his issues but it was a female teacher and DS said she was sorting out the girls.

Even if the toilets were empty he would really struggle to go, with the fear someone could come in. He doesn’t like people knowing he’s going to go the toilet either at all. So it’s a mix of factors. I do fully understand and sympathise with the teachers that walking around a city all day with year 7’s and then being on a bus 90mins both ways is very stressful, so I get where they were coming from, the last thing they want is someone weeing themselves on the bus.

Do they know about his toileting challenges? If they did but acted insensitively it’s not great. But if the whole thing was a surprise to them, then you could have given them some proactive notice.

Had you told the school about this behaviour prior to the trip? Do they know he is actively withholding food and drink? If you haven't told them, what exactly do you think they should have done? It sounds to me like they were acting in a responsible way and taking him with them is a safeguarding thing.
They need to know about him not eating and drinking - what would happen if he dehydrated to the point of either collapsing or behaving strangely, both of which are very possible? What if he fainted because of lack of food?
On the other hand, if they were aware, it wasn't great tactics from them but I still don't see what else they could have done.
All you can do really is ask for a meeting but I don't see what grounds you have for a complaint. You should also explain to him in very clear terms what will happen if he continues to do this. He will make himself ill, as in damaging his organs, and that's really not worth it for saving a few minutes embarrassment. I know your situation is difficult.

I think given the huge pressures and risk assessment for staff when taking a group of teenagers on a trip, let it go. It’s huge for your son but at the end of a long day of herding cats (which is what school trips are like) it was one incident.

Staff are having to factor in so much and your son’s toilet aversion will be one of a thousand other things. They overlooked it but they’re only human. If he otherwise enjoyed it, just chalk it up to the standard micro humiliations that all teenagers have to weather at secondary school and have to get over. You won’t be able to protect him from every single thing.

A 12yo in secondary school does not need to be told to go to the toilet. You do not tell 12 years olds, ND or not, to "try for a wee".

Those teachers are weird.

I wouldn't be cross with them or DS - I think everyone was trying their best.

For next time there needs to be a very clear plan in place that has been agreed with you, DS and the teachers.
a) If DS doesn't go when they tell everyone to, the teachers will not get him to go
OR
b) DS understands that for his health he cannot hold wee all day and so, at a pre-agreed point when everyone is going, he must go because if he doesn't go at all his health is at risk, and/or he might wet himself.

I think the important things are:

• that DS is not suddenly faced with being forced to go, he either knows that's expected of him if he goes on the trip, or it isn't.
• that the teachers are not suddenly faced with a child who hasn't wee'd all day without expecting it. They either know it might happen and should be left, or know that DS NEEDS to be forced to go and that they should do that even if it upsets him.

It's crazy that the teaching staff were not all aware of the areas he finds challenging. Surely you need to take steps BEFORE a trip to ensure this doesn't happen? You'd only have grounds for complaint if they all knew.

Trust me, they do need to be told. The number of kids who ask to go in lessons because* *they "didn't need it" at break is staggering. Forward planning is a foreign concept to many.

I wouldn't complain but I would talk to the school about what the plan could be for any future trips.
You need to work with your son so that he is engaged in the plan too so knows what to expect. It doesn't sound ok for him to go all day without using the toilet and then if he has a long coach trip home that could be awkward if he did need to go and then had an accident in front his friends. What would your son be happy with in terms of using the toilet? Lots of good suggestions about using disabled toilets but what solution could you offer regarding him not wanting people to know he is going? If you can suggest a solution then that is helpful for the school.

💯

Thanks all, I’ve read your messages and taken them to mind. I just want DS to be able to freely eat and drink without worrying in the back of his mind. I’m not a doctor but it’s not healthy for him to hold in the bathroom all day, on top of being hungry and thirsty. Lately he’s been having tummy cramps, which I’m not sure if they are related to this but it wouldn’t surprise me. I think a big thing is trying to get him to understand that weeing/pooing is natural and that everyone does it. But it’s easier said than done obviously getting him to fully understand that with his anxiety