Unable to charge for my time for an LPA

[whyisnothingsimple]

I have a LPA for my brother who has vascular dementia. We have never been close and had little contact until he became ill. His financial affairs were very complicated and I have probably spent over 1000 hours trying to sort it all out. It is now much better but I still have to spend several hours a month updating his financial situation. I retired 6 months early as I was struggling to sort his money and house out whilst having a full time job plus a life. He never, ever lifted a finger to help me. If i was not prepared, reluctantly, to do all his life admin, it would fall to a solicitor who would be able to charge a fee per hour. As his attorney, it is assumed that family and friends will do it for love. I do love my brother because he is my brother but I have just spent another 2 hours on the phone sorting an issue out and this has now been going on for over 3 years. I suppose I just want to vent!!!!

My FIL had dementia. His bill was nearer £10k per month

Oh yes - you’ve obviously gone through it

Exactly

I suppose that was why I started the thread - I’ve no idea what your hourly rate is - if I was able to charge £10 per hour - the bill would circa £10000 - I suspect your hourly rate would be far greater - £100 per hour would be £100000 which would give him 2 years less in his current care home at the current rate - they increase every year - this year by £600 pm. I’m not knocking what a solicitor would charge but it seems extremely unfair that I’m trying to maximise his self-funded care

This is illegal.

Already done but as someone has said - you need to spread the money across several unlinked bank to cover the £85000 limit - it’s down to 6 banks now

I looked into that when he first got ill - he’s just had a DoL assessment but is deemed to lack capacity - I’ll look into a section 3 whatever that is so thank you.

Solicitors can only charge for the time spent if there is a clause in the LPA allowing this. OP won’t be able to engage one and pay from brother’s funds, frankly you shouldn’t agree to be an attorney if you don’t want the hassle.

If he was ever hospitalised under the mental health act for any reason, you said he had mental illness, then a treatment section 3 entitles the patient to free aftercare. It would be on his medical records.

Didn’t know how time-consuming it would be - I had our dad’s LPA and it was very simple

Oh - he was in a secure hospital for 6 months can I DM you?

Or nearly 4 hours a day for Monday to Friday every week for a year.

If an LPA is that complex it's either to manage a hugely complicated mess worth millions, or the attorney has no idea what they're doing - in both cases a solicitor should be engaged.

Job one should have been to streamline and simplify the finances so you are spending minimal time managing them. I don't spend even 4 hours a month sorting my own finances, there's no way I'd be giving up my job to manage such a complicated situation.

Half a million quid in the bank and couldn't be bothered to engage professional help? YOU might need legal advice if you're struggling to manage this size of estate.

Hi OP. Now your brother has lost capacity you can't change LPA anyway.

You would have to apply to appoint a Deputy through the Court of Protection.

They can charged it's true - but only if they are a professional Deputy.

Once there's a professional Deputy in place the OPG supervises and asks for a report once a year - this report includes things like making sure benefits are maximised and things like care plans etc.

A professional Deputy will be knowledgeable about things like CHC funding and tax returns, investments, annuities etc.

Just to add - once somebody's capital goes down to £20,300 they can't charge full rate - only 4.5% a year of the entire capital.

You can employ a firm of Solicitors - or your Local Authority.

I'm a Legal Caseworker for Court of Protection and I am always surprised how little people know about how hard it is to deal with somebody else's finances - it's a full time job for me!

It's a strain and if I were you I would pass it onto a Solicitor.

He was not poor but not quite a millionaire and I absolutely knew what I was doing - I’ve done it twice before for people whose affairs were not so muddled - it was very time consuming - have you ever had to do this? His house was derelict and had to be sold plus streamlining his complicated finances. I now spend around 5 hours per month dealing with his stuff but it has taken so many hours to reach this point. If you’ve never had to deal with something like this you really have no idea what is involved

Couple of thoughts:

1. Dont repeat it for your future attorneys. You can put in provision for them to take costs including something for time when you set it up. They don’t have to, but it gives the option. It doesn’t solve it for you, but at leasts avoids a repeat.
2. Consider whether an accountant would help. As you say, it’s not particularly solicitor work and that’s expensive admin. But there’s probably tax returns etc, and bog standard high street accountancy services might be able to cover a chunk of that leg work for you and at least reduce the burden and on value for money vs time and hassle it saves you may well be well worth it (and can be paid for from his funds). Doesn’t solve the endless phone calls, but does reduce the other stuff.

Oh for goodness sake - have you any idea what you are talking about? Yes he had around that figure but when you set up an LPA - the donor has to have capacity - he had that. His mental health declined rapidly and so I had to get things sorted. His care home costs are around £50000 funded from savings - that’s 10 years at today’s prices - he is comparatively young at 72 so could easily require that

Thank you - I have to say that the Court of Protection people I have spoken to have been great - very helpful. It’s my 3rd time of dealing with this and our dad lacked capacity without an LPA - took a while to sort and cost quite a bit but got there in the end.

I’ve a mega spreadsheet which takes an hour a month to update so not onerous - I recently moved house and updated my address online with a bank we both have accounts with - thought that would change things for both of us but no although I have full access to all his accounts. Couldn’t change the address online for his accounts so had to phone them - you hang on for so long

point 1 didn’t know you could that - before he lacked capacity I did get him to sign a letter to continue giving my grandchildren money for Christmas and birthdays - as he always had.

YANBU OP. I did this for an elderly aunt, my Dad’s sister, when Dad died. The hours and hours spent firstly getting the Deputyship changed from Dad to me. Then going through all the bank accounts, sorting out her pension, benefits, dealing with the LA, adult social services, the care home, making sure she still had her weekly hair appointments paid for, sending toiletries. Annual scrutiny from the Court of Protection, accounts submitted for the council, dealing with my co trustee in relation to an old life policy held in her favour. It just never stopped, there was never a week went by without me having to ‘do’ something. Like you, I could have used a solicitor, I’d only met her a handful of times, we weren’t close (she was schizophrenic), but it’s a sense of duty isn’t it. She sadly passed away last year, and I’m glad I did it - she was well cared for and had everything she needed. I’m pleased all the paperwork had stopped now though. My dad would have been proud I advocated for his sister for going on 10 years.

Sympathies I'm doing it for someone. Similarly complicated set up - tonnes of accounts, shares, an unclaimed pension, house in a poor state of repair.

It takes hours and the financial institutions are crap to deal with . I've written so many letters of complaint and there are still a few I don't have access to.

I also live 400 miles away.

I'm deeply resentful that because they failed to adult I've had to exhibit double black diamond adulting skills.

Care home charges vary, and it depends what the person needs - and can pay for. The average is around £5800.

Have you tried MS Money? It’s no longer supported by Microsoft. I use the Sunset Deluxe edition (or something like that). I keep account for me and DH; and DD1 for whom, I am the appointee. Luckily we and her, both use banks which download directly into MS Money. It doesn’t produce full accounts - more like a cash flow report, although it’s possible to extract a balance sheet, consisting of balances at the bank accounts, credit cards, deposit accounts and investments.

I use VT for DH’s bookkeeping and partnership accounts. I can’t remember how much it is - probably £125 pa?

Although come to think of it, you don’t need to understand double entry for MS Money; but you do for VT!

OP you are doing the right thing because he is your brother and because you don’t really have much choice. Most of us will do it for someone at some point but yours sounds more painful as it’s been so muddled. He’s lucky to have you.