Aibu to complain about this to the school?

[Frozo]

DS is at a non-religious school (our local, non-selective state school) that is part of a wider school federation. His school is not religious, but the federation has another school which is. The school doesn’t have its own board of governors - there’s one board for both, and one Executive Head for both. The other school in the Federation is a C of E school. The Executive Head is very religious and the local Reverend is on the Board of Governors. As it isn’t a C of E school, no church funding goes to DS’s school, it does go to the other school in the Federation.

I don’t mind DS being exposed to religion at all. I’m very happy with religious/bible stories being used to show values that we all believe members of society should have (i.e. the innkeeper letting Mary and Joseph in can be a discussion around empathy/kindness/ingenuity or a bible story teaching forgiveness or patience or whatever). I wouldn’t mind a story from any religion for these purposes - or a non-religious text (like Aesop’s fables, etc). I don’t personally know what I believe religion-wise and I’m happy for DS to have his own opinions and beliefs as long as he’s a good person.

However, there have been several occasions now where I feel that the school are hugely overstepping in terms of the religion that they’re teaching DS. Two examples from this week are (we were not informed about either):

1. The Reverend came into the school and spoke to the class. DS reports that if someone is a good person or helps other people, that makes them at Christian and if they don’t do those things then they aren’t a Christian. I obviously wasn’t there and don’t know exactly what was said but that is the belief that DS left with. I strongly disagree with this - I believe there are people of all religions and none who are good people who help others, and bad people of all religions and none too. I strongly do not want DS to be taught that any demographic in society are morally superior to another.
2. The second issue is that their story of the week is the story of Zachheus. I’m not well versed in the bible but my understanding is that the message of this story about coming to Jesus. There doesn’t appear to be any message to the story other than that coming to Jesus makes you a better person. Google says that the message of the story is “the transformative power of encountering Jesus”. Again, I am not ok with this. I do not accept that DS (or anyone else) needs to find Jesus to be a good, moral and happy person.

I think that the school are completely overstepping here and pushing a narrative that should not be happening in a non-religious school. I think it’s harmful and undermining the message we teach at home (to not judge other by their labels, backgrounds or demographics). It’s far more aggressively religious than my primary school (which was a C of E school).

What are thoughts? Am I being precious?

The school could argue (correctly) that it is a requirement for schools to have a daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature.

You do, however, have the right to withdraw your child from this.

What? Why on earth would this be a requirement for a non-religious school? I have never heard this before

I think it’s very unlikely that the reverend actually said what your DS has interpreted it as. Not least because it isn’t actually terribly consistent with most Christian teachings.

i wouldn’t want to speculate on what he actually said.

the second - literally the point of Religious education is to learn about religions. They’ll learn about the seven pillars of Islam when they do Islam, and they’ll learn about the dagger and the turban etc when they do Sikhism.

RE isn’t about teaching the values you like. It’s about exposing them to different religions and giving them a basic understanding of them. The concept of god or gods is pretty key to religious education.

Its in the Education Act. It is just loosely applied these days.

Teacher. All schools (doesn't matter whether they're LA schools or part of a MAT) have to follow your local council's RE specification. So google your local council's RE specification and if you have concerns that the school aren't meeting this regulatory requirement, contact the LA.

5 pillars. 5 Ks.

Yes I've heard this before...I thought it was common knowledge.

At my dc non religious primary school, the local vicar would occasionally visit and do a talk in assembly but I don't think it was overly religious.

This isn’t the RE scheme of work. This appears to be the “collective worship” that other posters have mentioned. Seems entirely pointless to have non-religious schools if they all have to worship anyway…

In the U.K. the state schooling system developed after a fairly large religious schooling system was established. Hence all of the C of E schools.

as part of the deal to bring these schools into the state system after the Second World War it was agreed that every school would have a daily act of worship of a broadly Christian character.

this is still technically in force although more honoured in the breach these days.

the U.K. does not have non-religious schools in the way that some other countries (eg France or the US) do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_worship_in_schools

A lot of schools just ignore it and no one does anything to enforce it, but it's technically required.

I’d have no issue with this at all. My issue is that, almost daily, DS is coming home saying things that sound like really quite extreme beliefs. The focus really seems to be on ensuring that the children believe they are Christian and that Christianity is good, rather than anything to do with the qualities that it’s good to be.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_worship_in_schools

I would adapt this and tell her "Christian's believe that if you are not good you are not a Christian". Same as the other example, "Christians believe that going to Jesus makes you a better person." But not everyone is a Christian and not everyone believes that. Like a pp said, we can't speculate as to what was exactly said, but he may have said it in this way? Not disbelieving your DD at all but it's a pretty complex thing to listen to and understand enough to recall exact details.

If you feel you need clarification from the school on their RE curriculum, then ask to speak to someone at school about it.

Some of the things DS has said/done recently are:

“I have to be a Christian so I don’t go to hell”
Saving the “Christian” toys in the bath, and not the other toys.
“If you’re a good person, you’re a Christian”
“In the story of Zacheus, he wasn’t a Christian, and that’s bad. Then Jesus made him a Christian and that’s good”
“Jesus is the most important person in the world”
“Jesus is with us all the time even though we can’t see him”

Thanks - this is the approach we’ve taken. But this isn’t the RE scheme - they’re learning about Hinduism in RE and, from that, DS has understood that it’s what some people believe (but he believes that they are wrong).

Well, you have the right to withdraw your child from the daily act of collective worship (mostly known as assembly).

i wouldn’t bother complaining that they are doing it as it is literally the law that they are supposed to, but feel free if it makes you feel better.

Maybe start here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7cd8f740f0b6629523c2b7/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

How old is your DS? I find it concerning that he believes some people are “wrong” if they are not a Christian or follow another religion.

He’s 5. I find it really concerning too. Before starting school he didn’t know what a Christian (or any other religion) was.

I have no issue with him being taught about any/all religions, and no issue with religious text being used to teach him morals. I do have an issue with him being told that Christianity is better than other religions (or no religion), and that Christianity is objective fact.

Except that isn't what Christina believe, as a previous poster said.
Also op, C of E schools don't get money from the Church, then are funded in exactly the same way as all schools.

You don’t speak for all Christians - many Christians do believe that.

And yes, C of E schools are funded by the government in the normal way and then receive financial support from the Church on top

Do you talk a lot at home about religion? I think your son may be picking up on what appears to be something you have intense feelings about.

You may find that he ends up choosing to follow a religion and you'll have to find a way to live with that.

Neither the school I work in, or the one my son attends, talk about one religion more than any other in assemblies (and usually none). They talk about values, but it's more likely to be through a picture book than a Bible story.

The only other school I worked in did, but that was a Catholic school! And even then the head always prefaced it with "Catholics believe..", never as fact!

I wouldn't be happy if my 5 year old came home saying the things yours has said OP. I wouldn't go in all guns blazing, but I would raise it.

In that case, he’s very young and may be getting the wrong end of the stick a little bit.
Do you know definitely that school have been telling them that anything other than Christianity is wrong?
I work in a C of E junior school and while we have “collective worship” a few times a week, we still have the usual R.E lessons focusing on different religions or celebrations depending on the topic.
Also we do emphasise the point that “this is what the people that follow this religion believe. Other people do things differently”

In your shoes I’d speak to the class teacher to get some clarity on what and how they teach R.E.

No, we barely talk about religion. As I said, I’m perfectly happy for him to be religious. I’m not happy for him to think one demographic of people are better than others.