To think having a baby doesn’t automatically make you a good person?

[MyNoisyGreyPombear]

Some people are still just selfish - now with a child in tow.

yes - i doubt this is something that anyone would disagree with. everyone has encountered or heard of horrible people who had kids.

A baby can be a big part of a redemption arch. Serena in A Handmaid's Tale, for example.

I think it expands the circle of selfishness to incorporate the child in the parents inner circle. Is that still selfish?

Having children hasn't made me a good person, but I've definitely become last selfish!

Totally agree.
I think motherhood can mature and mellow some people but mostly it just amplifies their existing personality traits, good or bad.
I've met some very unpleasant, sharp-elbowed and self-interested women at playgroups and baby groups since having my son. I often had a hunch before I had my son that motherhood does NOT make people better/less selfish. Now I'm a mum I absolutely stand by that.

That’s a really interesting take, I hadn’t thought about it as “expanding the circle of selfishness.” I suppose it depends on whether the change is genuine growth or just protective instinct for their own. In some cases, it feels like people use motherhood as a shield from critique rather than doing real self-reflection.

If you rear animals it is well known that breeding young females is a good way to 'settle them down '. Doesn't work all of the time of course but it's usually successful.
Probably the same with people.

Well of course not, plenty of child abusers and murderers are parents.

It’s very true, but nobody really suggests otherwise.

It doesn't apply to all animals, most bear attacks (and kills) are by female bears with cubs, for example. Nuetring males is fairly affective though.

Does anyone believe that it does?

Can confirm that I’m the same selfish cow I was before kids 👍

Obviously not. Look at Fred and Rose west for example !

No, but most people are not rearing bears! I'm talking things like horses, cows, sheep, dogs etc.

I have never heard anyone say that it does

I literally came here to say that 😂Stalin also had kids, don't think anyone is claiming he was a great guy either!

There's a bunch of kids in the care system that could answer this. I know the reasons for this are varied and always sad, but a decent proportion will be parent(s) putting their own needs before anything else, whether it is addiction or abusive partners.
Please don't come at me for this comment, I speak from experience.

I think parents obviously need to put their child's needs before their own, and that can make them feel unselfish. But they can still be just as selfish towards everyone but their child.

@Naunet was making the point that, since it doesn't apply to all animals, there's no reason it should apply to humans.

Of course not. You've have to be an idiot to think it did. Have you seen people seriously suggesting having kids makes you a better person?

Yes, on Mumsnet, having kids makes you more caring and empathetic apparently.

Of course not, a baby will not change your personality.

Well it appears to make mothers saints and men evil or something like that it has been said

But has anyone actually said this op?

I don't think I was a bad person before I had a baby, but it did change me and agree it makes you less selfish.

I was 22 though so I feel like I grew up through having a baby and was basically a teenager before, maybe if you have your first at 35 you'd already have gone through a period growth from other things happening to you.

So you seemingly know you’re not a good person (as your previous comment implies you’re not a good person?) so why is that? Are you not trying to change that???

And you’re fine with that?