Should skirt length matter in secondary schools?

[Holdonforsummer]

My daughter is 15 and in Year 10, she attends an all-girls comprehensive secondary school and they are obsessed with the girls’ skirt length. The skirt is like a tartan kilt and is supposed to be ‘on the knee’ but most of the girls roll their skirts to make them a bit shorter (think mid-thigh). I’m a bit on the fence about this but her school go on and on and on about it. They stop girls all the time, give detentions for short skirts, have assemblies about it, and have even been known to measure skirts and give girls long ones from the list property cupboard to wear instead. Yesterday, my daughter had just finished 5 hours of mock exams in 28 degrees and was walking home - outside school property - and was stopped by a teacher threatening detention even though she had left school. She came home furious and fed up of the whole thing. I can’t decide whether the girls just need to toe the line or whether behaviour from the school is bordering on a sexist, misogynistic obsession. YABU: the pupils need to obey the skirt rules, YANBU: The school should calm down and stop obsessing about skirt length.

Sorry but what era where you a teenager, not all teenagers are brain washed by social media and not all teenagers have skirts that short that you can see their underwear, many girls at DD's school wear shirt cycling shorts underneath.

I really don't think teenagers wearing skimpy stuff is a new thing, did anyone read Just 17 in the 90s when their were more like 12 and see the fashion on display to buy at Top shop or Miss Selfridge! Equally, when I was at college late 90s to early 00s fashion definitely included skimpy clothes, I have some clothes from that era, vea tops with bands on the front that are pretty tight. Also, since when did teenagers want to look like their parents? I was into the grunge scene as a very young teenager and I'm unsure why needed to wear DMs with flowery skirts, I don't know why I wanted to wear unsuitable boots with a skirt, why not ballet pumps🙄

@Boeufsurletoit because then the parents would be up in arms about us not letting the girls wear skirts.

Like some of the other teachers on here, I don't really agree with uniform as a whole, but I would very much like to be able to walk up the stairs at work looking in front of me instead of carefully looking at my shoes. For me it's very much not about distracting boys (we don't have any), but more that I would prefer not to see anyone's pants at work. True in every workplace I've ever been in, tbh!

Also, from experience, if we don't enforce uniform rules then the kids feel like the rest of the rules are optional too. It really undermines the school.

Teacher. Don't care how long a girl's skirt is, I'm not the one wearing it, don't want to go near the 'short skirt' argument, literally it's my job to be blind to whatever 'signals' kids might be sending out because they're sure as hell not sending them to me.

It's sexual signalling. Like it or not, and whether it's conscious or not, that's what it's about.

It's disingenuous to pretend that it isn't and scorn any attempt by the school to attempt to factor that into their rules. But teenaged girls know perfectly well that having their skirt as short as possible gets them male attention.

It's basic human nature on both sides, and schools have to manage it somehow. But it's difficult to insist on a happy medium skirt length without constantly having to nag. And then you get the parents who kick off when their daughters flout the rule and get pulled up for it.

If I was a headteacher I'd say trousers for all, no leggings. It's easier.

Whilst they’re still wearing uniform, they’re still representing the school. It would work this way even if you worked for Asda, or the nhs. Preparing them for the real world of obeying the rules. Don’t like it? Leave.

Also, the main problem we have isn't the length of the skirt, it's the lack of 'modesty panels' on desks. The uniform would have to be Victorian to avoid this issue - or the teacher would have to have the good sense to arrange their classroom so it's not a problem.

I get you’re trying to imply that we’re all arse watching perverts, but in the real world, we don’t walk around with our eyes closed or staring at the sky. If someone in front has their arse cheeks out I’m going to see it on account of the fact I have eyes.

You chose a school with uniform, just stick to uniform. How hard can it be.
The amount of time and energy wasted because parents believe their little darling is special is ridiculous.

Even in the work place, there are dress code, which have to become stricter when someone confuse the office with a night club.

No one is "shaming" a girl FFS, teach them about respect of places and environment. In church, in some nice restaurants, you wear appropriate clothing. Same with school. Keep your micro-skirt for your parties. Just because most boys don't tend to wear hot pants, doesn't mean they would be allowed to show their arse if they tried. It's not a conspiracy against "girls"

No one has 'arse cheeks hanging out'. Stop scrutinising young girls arses. They probably think you look a frump but are you bothered, is it their business? No. And how they look isn't yours.

Schools have strict rules like "skirts on the knee" because then it is clear cut and no grey areas about what is a "reasonable" length. Our school introduced a no jewellery policy. Over night the constant arguments about what constitutes a "stud" earring disappeared.

If I was a headteacher I'd say trousers for all, no leggings. It's easier.

you'd think! Imagine trying to manage what is trousers and what is leggings. Same girls would wear ridiculously skinny trousers, it would be just as bad 😂

It is cheap and slovenly looking. do you think it’s an appropriate way to dress for school? Says a lot about you.

you are just on a wind-up, it's boring

Of course I know why they want to roll their skirts up. I too have been a teenage girl. I was merely exasperatedly suggesting that they could maybe stop claiming it's 'unimportant', since they clearly think it is important.

Anyway, presumably you think all employers should let their adult female employees wear skirts up to their knickers too, since you think nobody should care about what anyone else wears?

I largely don't care what they wear - hence being in favour of ditching uniform. But I'm not a fan of knickers on display or very nearly on display. When it's non-uniform day they all seem to wear joggers. Not a short skirt in sight!

@Gloriia its very strange that you think it’s appropriate for young girls to have their backside hanging out of their skirts. Very odd indeed.

Believe me a lot of the girls round here most definitely have their arse cheeks out, not the whole arse obviously but enough. If you don’t have that in your neck of the woods then you're lucky.

My view is that dress codes and things are standard and sensible at school. Dress respectfully at school. If you want to rest boundaries and be skimpy....... That's a place for outside of school in the teen's personal life.

The mindset behind a strict uniform code is that if they are rebelling about skirt length or tucking a shirt in then they feel Iike they have broken a rule (which doesn’t really matter). Schools where the uniform is awful have generally lost a bit of control & instead of rebelling over a short skirt they’re vaping in the loos or having fights. Head of Michaela School did something on it.

As a middle aged secondary school teacher I don’t like seeing someone’s pants - it’s not just boys or male teachers. Sometimes you literally can’t avoid it.

There are loads of girls on TikTok in school uniform with grandad age men commenting on their short skirts. Personally I think it would be best to avoid showing your pants off on TikTok.

https://x.com/miss_snuffy/status/1796136201780412620?s=46

I'm absolutely not on the wind up I just loathe all the misogyny about 'arse cheeks hanging out'. Skirt length should not matter, quality of teaching should and I know which concerns me more.

They all go to college after gcses and guess what, they wear what they like and college tutors don't seem ro have an attack of the vapours at the sight of a short skirt.

And even odder that this poster is claiming that it's the people saying no to short skirts who are being accused of wanting to look at girls' arses. Logic is clearly not their strong suit.

I don't look at young girl's arses.

YABU the uniform policy is there schools business , if you don’t like the policy find a different school .

That literally doesn't happen in many workplaces at all. Schools are very much behind the average workplace if they are imagining offices have very formal work wear and measure skirt length! Boys can actually wear the school skirt at my teenagers' school.

I actually think uniform is a waste of time and where I live you don't see this huge shift to skimpy clothes in the sixth form college, in fact it appears to be baggy jeans, fairly practical, lots of jewellery but in an office you wouldn't ban jewellery like in a school.

I don't want to see boys in school wearing very short skirts or shorts either.

Also - again - do you think most employers allow or should allow very very short skirts? Is it misogynist of them not to? Or is it, perhaps, just a perfectly normal and reasonable dress code?

You seem to be intentionally missing the point . It’s not misogyny to want girls to have a modicum of decency in a school. If skirt length doesn’t matter then should we let them all come in naked? That wouldn’t affect the quality of teaching either.