Should skirt length matter in secondary schools?

[Holdonforsummer]

My daughter is 15 and in Year 10, she attends an all-girls comprehensive secondary school and they are obsessed with the girls’ skirt length. The skirt is like a tartan kilt and is supposed to be ‘on the knee’ but most of the girls roll their skirts to make them a bit shorter (think mid-thigh). I’m a bit on the fence about this but her school go on and on and on about it. They stop girls all the time, give detentions for short skirts, have assemblies about it, and have even been known to measure skirts and give girls long ones from the list property cupboard to wear instead. Yesterday, my daughter had just finished 5 hours of mock exams in 28 degrees and was walking home - outside school property - and was stopped by a teacher threatening detention even though she had left school. She came home furious and fed up of the whole thing. I can’t decide whether the girls just need to toe the line or whether behaviour from the school is bordering on a sexist, misogynistic obsession. YABU: the pupils need to obey the skirt rules, YANBU: The school should calm down and stop obsessing about skirt length.

I don't teach in sport clothes and wouldn't be allowed to.

I have also seen too many arse cheeks to know that not all girls wear shorts underneath their skirts. Proper sports skirts with built in shorts usually don't show arse if they fit right. Rolled up skin tight skirts are unpleasant.

PE shorts and skorts cover the knickers though.
You don't see the knickers.
That's the difference.

They spend a huge amount of time adjusting them and checking if their pants are showing; boys don't do this and are free to spend more of their mental energy on school work.

They are exactly like knickers. Just called a skort. Like gym knickers. They don't cover buttocks. If you had a really tiny bum they probably wouldn't but not everyone is built like that. My daughter doesn't show her buttocks in her school skirt but she does roll it, and she's wearing tights. So it's ironic that the school mandated skorts do show buttocks don't you think?

But your whole point has been that girls shouldn't show anything at school. PE is part of school and they are out in public in school mandated pe uniform which does. It doesn't make sense

PE knickers are much more revealing than regular uniform. Kids are jumping, twirling, climbing, flipping, bending etc.

They are basically a 2nd pair of knickers so you don't see the first pair when upside down. But school coloured knickers with logos on are acceptable to see?

I honestly cannot make a value judgment without seeing their PE uniform. But after looking through photos of my DDs at their school sporting events they had shorts on, and yes it was shorter compared to their school skirts but that's because it's made for sport. Sport is different to lessons. My DS didn't wear his sports kits in history lessons. Students were sent home if they wore jeans like trousers instead of proper formal ones.

As PP said you don't teach in sportswear there's a time and a place for stuff. Main thing is though, the school has a dress code and rules which students should follow. If they break it, so be it, but the school can dish out any uniform related infringements as it sees for. Shirts need to be tucked in, ties done up and skirts for the girls should be at an appropriate length.

If you can't understand that, maybe it's a you issue.

I do it is part of the rules to teach in sports clothes on days when it is PE. PESSPA state staff much change for PE or be wearing PE clothes. As there are no staff changing rooms (and toilets are not to be used for changing either according to PESSPA) then staff wear them all day. Staff also can wear shorts.

Sounds like she has the wrong size 😂

PE knickers have always been designed to go over regular knickers.
Despite their name they aren't underwear.
Wearing sportswear in public is very different to being able to see a pair of M+S briefs.

And many girls wear shorts under their skirts. Most do in fact. Starts at age 4 with most when 4 year olds get told seeing a piece of fabric is offensive.

I'm surprised you are surprised kids wear knickers to cover their bums. That is what they are designed to do. Showing your bum is sports is ok but a piece of cotton that you do not see deserves what?

I'm confused what you mean.
You don't show your bum in sportswear - because the sportswear is covering it.

I take it your 14 year old ds is not going round with his arse out

I've got a Yr 8dd, who rolls her skirt up when she goes to school. If she gets in trouble, that's her lookout. Although interestingly, she's a girl who's terrified is being in trouble- but this is the hill she'll die on.

I leave before her... to spend my days telling other people's kids to roll their skirts down/loosen their shirts/ take their eyelashes/talons off/stop looking like they're in sexy schoolgirl fancy dress because, let's face it, that's the look they're aiming for.

I asked her why she does it:
It looks better.
Who says?
Well, all the other girls do.
But why do they do it?
Because.... well...I..... don't know.

They do it because they've seen it equated with sexiness, which equates to desirability which equates to attractiveness and being wanted, in a society that values youth and attractiveness over all else. And let's not forget, as soon as hormones kick in, you want to be desired.

Teenage (15+)me was disappointed by a stroll into town without a single beep from a car. Barmaid me knew tits=tips. I was told, in magazines and on tv that that was empowering. Why should i cover myself up?Parent me eyeballs every sleaze who glances at my child.

Then, girls like my dd who hasn't yet hit the wanting to look sexy age, emulate it because they don't want shit from the twat girls for 'looking like a nun' (dd). Let's stop pretending that wearing your skirt really short is a choice with no external influences at all. Where are all the girls rebelling against the rules by wearing long skirts? Or the boy version of the uniform? Why is rebellion 'let's look like Britney Spears' or a skool daze night in your local sticky floor.

I don't think you've read any of my subsequent posts

'leave before her... to spend my days telling other people's kids to roll their skirts down/loosen their shirts/ take their eyelashes/talons off/stop looking like they're in sexy schoolgirl fancy dress because, let's face it, that's the look they're aiming for.'

'Sexy schoolgirl'. They are underage girls please don't label them like this.

Why bother? As the rest of your post goes on to describe this has been going on for ever so fussy teachers fussing will not change it. I'm surprised you haven't learnt that the more you complain the more they'll do it.

School teachers should just unclench and teach. As long as they are in the right colours with the right logo than that should do. Obviously high heels should not be allowed for safety reasons but 'eyelashes' and 'talons'? Well so what. Seriously.

I actually do wonder what a school’s reaction would be if girls showed up with ankle length black skirts. Because technically they’re not uniform. You can’t buy them from uniform shops or in the uniform aisle. So they would be fashion skirts. No chance in hell in finding them in a tartan pattern, and if you just buy bigger sizes to get the length, then they look stupid and misshapen. Wearing trousers is a legitimate choice (DD and her friends have been wearing them until the weather got hotter, she’s seriously pissed off it’s too hot for them) and not really a rebellion.

I actually had an ankle length black skirt for school that I absolutely loved(with platform shoes), but the “uniform” rules were incredibly relaxed. Basically the fact that it existed and the presence of a blazer on the back of a chair. Most girls wore jeans funnily enough, even in 30/35 degree heat. Some had little black skirts with tights, some had black tailored trousers , but the vast majority (hundreds of us) just wore jeans.

No, I was responding to that single post, why what did you say that was pertinent?

@WhenYouSayNothingAtAll religious girls often wear ankle length skirts.
They can't be that hard to get hold of.
In South London a (recently closed down) girls school that was a CofE school but around 40% of the girls were Muslim,
the (patterned) uniform skirt was available in knee and ankle length.

School teachers should just unclench and teach. As long as they are in the right colours with the right logo than that should do. Obviously high heels should not be allowed for safety reasons but 'eyelashes' and 'talons'? Well so what. Seriously.
It is the kids who should just wise up and learn.
This is school, not a party. The kids who are dressed to impress each other are usually the ones who disrupt the lessons.

None of the schools around here offer it as an option. Let’s not pretend like it’s a regular , common option , available everywhere that girls just choose to ignore.

Neighbour’s daughter used to wear hers so that there was nothing left to imagine - don’t think she even waited to leave the house to roll it up!
This was early secondary school. By the end I think she was wearing trousers.
Think many of them do it until the fancy wears off.

It teaches dignity and respect.

In our independent even the 14 year olds year knee length gingham dresses.

It would be an option if they have been raised to dress in "modest" clothing (which isn't just an Islamic thing).

Tbh, I doubt DD would wear one. Nothing to do with being raised modestly or not. She has 3 skirts in total , one uniform, one pe skort and one cargo skirt.She is looking forward to being able to wear school trousers again though, once the weather cools off.