Is teaching at private schools better?

[buffertie]

Many a thread and much in the news about just how awful teaching is. Many teachers are leaving the profession. The main reasons I’m heading and reading about are: poor pay, very long hours, badly behaved children, even worse behaved parents, unrealistic expectations, ofsted, too many kids. Many more I’m sure, I’m not an expert on the subject as you can probably tell.

Anyway, my kids go to private primary school and I often look at the teachers and wonder if they’re ok or if it’s any better at private schools ?

I have nothing but praise and respect for all teachers. I certainly could not do it and I am saddened by the poor conditions and quite frankly very worried what will happen, as so many are leaving the profession and many more are probably put off from even joining.

what’s the situation in private schools, generally speaking ? Is it better or actually worse ? Perhaps more pressure ?

It depends.

My department was generally better than state but then the head of department and head teacher both left and were replaced by a pair of completely toxic bellends. Then it was immeasurably worse.

My kids went to an outstanding primary and outstanding secondary, and i’d say some teaching was good, and others pretty poor. My DC both did really well (DD achieved all 9’s so couldn’t have done any better anyway) but a lot of that was extra learning done themselves. Some teachers there are great, but have been some really poor ones. Including one who was asked to leave mid term.

So one of my sister went to private school and several friends that teach at private schools and the differences seems to be

1. Teachers can be paid more at private schools but this does depend on the school. Some schools also offer housing if they take on an additional role within the boarding setup such as housemaster.

1. They generally have smaller class sizes which means they get more time to work on children's individual needs.

1. They're in a better position to priced resources pupils need as they're funding is less restricted by local government. E.G money from fees goes back into the school plus you'll find the wealthier parents donate money towards things. When private schools could register as charities, the wealthier parents would donate money as they could then bring their tax bill down a bit.

If the state school system was funded to the level private schools are, the gap would close by a big chunk.

I think it's worth starting with whether there is a teacher for a subject at all. My DDs friends at our local comp have told her that there are no maths teachers left. It's ofsted rated as inadequate for behaviour, so I'm not surprised if that is true. They also have a shortage in at least MFL.

It depends on the school. I’ve worked in both good and bad private and state schools.

Smaller classes can make lessons and marking more manageable. Lower levels of SEN are not a given. Parents are worse on average (I’ve had no demands and no contact outside parents evening with state school parents, but that might be because I’m in secondary education). Extra demands on top of teaching can be unreasonable (amount of sport / extracurricular) not because they aren’t great things to be involved in, but because there isn’t a corresponding reduction in teaching hours. This can be detrimental to your core job (teaching). The days are long, so term time is incredibly intense. The employer pension contributions are risible. But you usually get given lunch and the setting is beautiful and the holidays longer. Swings and roundabouts really.

I’d say that’s the same anywhere. Whether your child is in a class of 20 or a class of 32, they are still in a group setting receiving a lesson designed to cover a portion of an externally set curriculum. It’s not bespoke like individual tutoring. The kids who do well are self-motivated.

I work at a private school. Pay is currently less than at a state school but I’d say conditions are better. More planning time, smaller class sizes, maybe better behaviour but this is definitely slipping …

Totally depends on school. Potentially ‘better’ teaching is enabled at private schools due to small class size, leading to less discipline issues. There’s also more money for resources. That doesn’t necessarily make the actual teaching better, just the surroundings easier to do your job.

I agree. I actually think the kids who thrive it’s a mix of self motivation and invested parents. I think the role of parents/wider family influence is downgraded. Some, not all, parents think the school should take the lead in setting values, principles and vision/ambition. But I think these things are cemented in the home.

Depends on the school.

I work at a prep that pays more than state, small classes. Still a lot of SEN but less bureaucracy and the head and SLT are a great group of people.

At our local private schools pay is higher so it will depend on the individual schools. They are however academically selective so they pay to attract the teachers they consider better qualified.

Teaching in some.state schools is measurably better (if you think about 'distance travelled' learning eg where schools have high numbers of esol students, those schools are getting better teaching than a school where they've selected students on track for easy passes, the teachers aren't making a difference, those children will be fine ) some is worse, I've been in schools with completely disengaged staff for eg. There's also a matter of environment. I needed a school where the teachers didn't let me coast, my daughter does better with a more free approach. What good teaching looks like is not always some one size fits all.

I’ve worked in both sectors.
Totally depends on the school. Some pay more, some less than state (think the number that pay less is growing). Some have opted out of TPS or you have to pay some of the contributions yourself.
Hours are even longer, with extra duties, Saturdays at some schools but smaller classes, more non contact time and even longer holidays.
SEN and behaviour varies and some SLT are good and some awful. It’s a business so you have to please the customers (parents) which can greatly increase workload- emails, meetings and parental demands seem worse in private to me.
Resourcing is better and perks like free lunches etc.

I agree with this. My ex actually said something nice to me in the car after a uni open day, in that he thought if i’d had the benefits my DC have had, I could have been a doctor! I mean I doubt it, but I agree that my DC had the bonus of 2 parents (split though, but united front on all things kids) who both have a uni degree, both have done well in career (their dad especially so, holding a very senior role overseas) and most of all parents who are invested in their education (never pushy though). My mum actually didn’t speak to me for weeks when I insisted I wanted to go to uni, and hasn’t forgiven me still 25yrs on for moving out of my school town to London. Both my parents were manual workers with no formal education. It does make a difference. My mum would rather I had a factory job (nothing wrong with that, but I wanted more) and stayed local to her. I want my kids to spread their wings and reach their potential.

In reality the only person to make a difference is the leader

I'm no expert, and I'm not a teacher, but of course private schools can expel children, and it's very hard to do that in state schools. In the state primary my children attended, a boy arrived in the top year who'd been expelled from a private school, and he was a pain in the neck. My kids went to private secondary, where they were on the other side of it - a couple of pain-in-the-neck kids got "asked to leave".

I've taught in both state and private.
The main difference is the class size and that makes teaching the class a lot easier. Behaviour is better too in private schools though that is also getting worse in the independent sector now. However, private schools can expel suggest pupils move on elsewhere if behaviour is poor or if a child is not keeping up academically.

The thing that got to me in the end in the last private school I taught in was the expectations around extracurricular activities and enrichment. I was involved in music in this school and there were constant demands from SLT for bigger, better, shows, concerts and events, all of which take an awful lot of rehearsing and planning. I was paid the same as in the state sector but expected to do a lot more but there were no management points available to recompense all of the extra work that I was putting in.
It wasn't sustainable long term and I ended up off with stress, then I went back for a while and then decided to leave the profession completely.
The SLT was extremely toxic, especially the headteacher.

I'd say that there wasn't much difference between the workload in the state sector and the private sector. The extra work and pressures in the state sector regarding class size, ofsted, sen, eal etc were offset by the extra work and pressures of the after hours programme in the private sector.

Like others have said, it totally depends on the school. I’ve worked in both and know people who work in both. Some private schools pay the same as state schools, some pay a little more and some pay way more. The class sizes are smaller in private so some ‘admin’ is reduced (marking, report writing). I would say the parent-teacher relationship in private can be much more demanding as some parents believe that paying for the service means the teacher needs to do whatever they ask at any time. But, again, you have to balance this with having fewer kids in your class to worry about. There are still plenty of SEN considerations for private school teachers and plenty of safeguarding issues, too. In all the schools I’ve taught in, I’ve found the biggest difference is the SLT. If they’re good (supportive, hands on etc.), life is a million times easier regardless of class size.

quick edit - someone mentioned extra curricula and it is true that private schools do tend to ask more of teachers in this area. Most insist teachers run a club after school. There also tends to be a lot more parent facing stuff going on - open mornings, plays, music concerts which teachers are expected to attend even if it’s not their class. Then, there’s trips which can start as early as year 2 and can be anything from 1 night to 5 nights away. Obviously state schools do trips and parent facing stuff too but I think it’s more regular in private school.

Kids are better by a mile I don't get sworn at and I don't have to break up fights on a daily basis.
But the pressure from management and expectations from parents are greater, and we have to do a lot of extra things including Saturdays, trips in the holidays etc. I work more hours in private than state but for less pay and a worse pension. I'll be leaving soon.

I’ve worked in a private school for a few years and left last year. The pay was worse than state, but the behaviour is generally better. The private school I worked at no longer pay into TPS, and chose a less generous scheme instead.

I found the staff turnover to be unusually high. It’s unusual for TAs to stay longer than one year. Much of the teaching staff and support staff leave due to pay and working conditions. We were expected to work throughout our breaks using a duty rota because the school would not hire dinner supervisors. I’m not sure if it’s the same across the board, mind. Breaks were unpaid too.

It is not, but the classes are smaller and less affected by disruptive behaviour- so pupils get more teacher attention focused on supporting their learning.

Exactly- 100%

This isn't what op asked. She asked if it was better for the teachers.

In the private system, teachers have access to better resources but it’s actually the SAME teachers that would work in the public system work in the private one. Literally the same! But due to the access to better resources the kids get taught more things.

The actual standard of teaching is no better, but I certainly find conditions are much better. Much smaller classes so instantly that helps, far less bureaucracy, less beholden to government initiatives so much more freedom to plan and actually focus on teaching. Better SfL departments so feel very supported, longer holidays (but we work much longer hours during term time), excellent facilities, an attractive and vibrant environment to work in, specialist teachers in each day so I don’t have to wear quite as many hats etc. Yes parents are paying through the nose so there is a huge element of ‘you are delivering a high quality service, I demand high quality results’ which I get, but it becomes tricky as we’re dealing with little humans, not ‘goods and services’, I am paid a lot less than the state sector and I work a lot more hours in a week, but overall yes it is better I think in terms of work life balance and general happiness. I have room to breathe, I enjoy the children, I love my job and I’m very happy! Ethically I don’t know my own mind - I wish every school matched the standard set by some schools (including good state schools within this!) and it makes me sick to know all the children who are failed by the education system. I chose to work in the private sector as I get a hefty fee discount for my children and our local state schools were so over subscribed that I knew my (gorgeous, adored, beloved but academically average) children would get lost in the system, and there is nothing on this earth I wouldn’t do for them to have what I perceive as being the best - but I recognise the injustice of it all!