To think some teachers are getting away with all sorts with no way of challenging them??

[RedEyePen]

Mainly SLT! So today my ‘high needs’ son who the school tried to off roll had a head bump. On the way back from A and E I bumped into the Head getting her weekly shop in the supermarket. During school time. She didn’t seem stressed at all! Just getting her shopping in. V happy to interrogate my son as to why he wasn’t in school. Head and non teaching SENCO are always in the playground chatting every morning, yet can’t do any of my son’s paperwork without - at worst - an 8 months delay because they are ‘snowed under’.
I also work in a school where planning meetings, courses, computer based admin trumps : actually attending to the children’s needs.
AIBU??

A lot of people saying in work time, lots of jobs don't have set hours. I'm not a teacher I work in criminal justice, but you will occasionally find me in m&s during 'work time'. I was in a safeguarding meeting with a headteacher last night until 7pm should he not have been allowed to pop to Sainsbury's when he had a gap in his day given he didn't leave school until after 7pm last night?

Just to answer a few points!

I’m not allowed to clean up poo, as I work with food in my role. I’m expressly told to report all faults to a maintenance team, yet I was shouted at for doing this by a member of SLT. She said I should have told her first. So now I do and the faults are not addressed. I don’t have a hammer to fix nails and I doubt I’d be allowed to use it.
The general theme on the other threat is that the child may have been excluded unfairly. My DS is extremely quiet and not disruptive, but they wanted to off roll due to funding or concerns about results.
“Off-rolling’ is described by Ofsted as the practice of a school removing a pupil from a school roll in the perceived interests of the school rather than the pupil.
‘Gaming’ is similar and describes any process when a school’s actions or decisions – to exclude, not to exclude or during the process of excluding a pupil - are made in order to favour the school or academic league tables.
Any such exclusion is unlawful where a school removes a pupil from the Admissions Register for any reason not set out in Regulation 8 of The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006.”

So I think my ‘chip’ is more that I’ve seen a member of SLT browsing a supermarket (twice) buying her ‘chips’ - and not looking ‘stretched’ - while hearing that the school are too stretched to support my child. And two others : one excluded in reception, and one in Year1.

Exclusion rates are at an all time high.

So move schools!
you obviously hate this school/ headteacher so why stay

Teachers (including head teachers) work all the hours of God sends. HTs also qualify for 10% PPA time and (depending on the school) can use it as they see fit although I know some MATs tend to be more directive. I would not be judging the head for doing this.
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@IncessantNameChanger
Dsl can't be off site without clearing it with the deputy dsl. Both could do what they want at lunch but they have to have one on site even if they are doing a 20 hour shift.

Not true either. Local small schools make arrangements with other small schools to cover DSL duties when a DSL is off site.

Under Keeping Children Safe in Education (KCSIE) 2024, it’s not mandatory to have your Designated Safeguarding Lead (DSL) or Deputy DSL physically on site at all times, but the guidance is clear about their availability during school hours and term time.
KCSIE Requires

• One DSL must be appointed, with deputies who are trained to the same standard as the DSL
• During term time and school hours, either the DSL or a deputy “should always be available … for staff to discuss any safeguarding concerns.” That availability is essential
• Schools have flexibility on what "available" means. Generally, in-person availability is expected, but exceptionally, availability via phone or other media is acceptable if clearly defined in the school's policy

• For out-of-hours or out-of-term activities, it's up to the school to arrange appropriate cover

I repeat, headteacher, teachers, school staff, schools CAN BE CHALLENGED.

You can make a formal complaint, using the school complaints policy which matches DfE guidance. All freely available.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-complaints-procedures/best-practice-advice-for-school-complaints-procedures-2019

Have you complained so that the school can address and resolve? Have you used your evidence to support your complaint?

Much more useful and objective than posting here. MN can't resolve the issues around your child or your relationship with the school.

Your resentment is palpable. This won’t help your child.

Ask for a meeting with the Head and Chair of Governors. Approach the meeting in a conciliatory manner - what can be done to get things put in place, speed things up? What timescale is reasonable? What can YOU do to support the school’s efforts?
Keep your cool. Watch your tone and the language you use. Don’t accuse anyone of anything; just ask questions about the things you have observed and don’t understand, or that don’t fit with the school’s narrative. DON’T mention shopping trips - you really have no idea about those, and mentioning them will make you appear nasty.

Good luck!

You have no idea what that HT is doing minute to minute in her day, or another other staff member in fact, to declare unequivocally that the school isn't stretched. My DP is a primary school teacher and on the surface comes across as calm and chilled, but he's constantly stressed and overwhelmed by his workload. He hides it because it's not fair on the children in his class to punt it onto them. It's called professionalism.

I'd also love to know the school's side of things regarding why they want to offload your DS. No school does that without cause, particularly as the process for doing it is robust to ensure it's done fairly and justly.

Having read the thread, OP has pointed out:

Her son is not high needs according to doctor, but HT says he is to get more money - does not happen, schools have to jump through endless hoops to give proof of extra needs.

She works in a school where she's 'constantly busy with the kids' and SLT are planning and 'not with the kids' - this is the job of SLT, to run the school, rather than teach the children, so they're doing their jobs and she's annoyed?

Saw the HT at the supermarket and assumed she was doing her own shopping - countless people have said she could have been using her own time, buying things for school, organising a bake sale/getting ingredients for staff/endless number of possibilities that are completely relevant for her to be in a supermarket.

Seems like OP just dislikes the HT and will find anything to complain about.

So I’m guessing you’d be happy with all heads going home at 3.30 instead of them working into the night and attending meetings long after 3.30. They’re not paid by the hour so if they are pulling a late nighter and can only grab their shopping at a quiet time during the day then that is no different to any other senior role and perfectly acceptable. Many,many roles and sectors allow this as they appreciate they’re getting a good deal and said professionals put far more hours in than is recognised on paper.

I used to do this when I was working flexibly to offer training to nurses on evening and night shifts. If this person was seeing parents outside of their (the parents) working hours, its not unreasonable to take that time back.

What is it you object to?

1. That the Head is entitled to a lunch break?

1. That she was taking a lunch break outside the traditional time of 1pm to 2pm?

1. Or that she was using said break to do something different than eating lunch?

Or all of the above?

You sound like a nightmare parent.

It depends where the school is. I have always worked in schools in central London and staff regularly pop out during a free or lunch break. It is completely standard in all schools I have worked in. There are loads of extra hours in teaching and the whole system would collapse if either side set rigid working hours beyond contact time. There are plenty of other office workers who are also popping out so I think it is pretty standard for an awful lot of jobs.

I suppose if the school was rural, it would be a bit weird to drive for miles to a supermarket.

I think you need to try and work with the school or move your child.

There are quite a few posters who WFH and say that as long as they do their hours and meet their targets they are trusted to manage their time as they see fit. In some cases that seems to include nipping out to go to the gym and doing bits of shopping. I'm sure this HT will be putting in the hours and probably attending meetings outwith the school day. And the OP has no idea what this HT was doing there, or what other hours she might be working, and in any case she might, as has been pointed out, be taking her lunch break then because she is physically on duty during the time designated for lunch in her school.

You have a fundamental lack of understanding about how schools work. If a Head is non teaching then they are supposed to be in planning meetings, doing the paperwork etc. Thats the job. The teaching of children is the visible part of school work and behind that is the management of absence, send issues, resources, staff, management of non teaching staff, catering contracts, playground equipment, about 50 different policies all needing updating regularly, meetings with social workers, school networks, negotiating sports equipment deals, organising cultural enrichment, supervision of student Teachers and liaison with their universities, cleaning inspections, IT audits, re purchasing teaching schemes, building management, budget management, reporting to governors etc etc. It's never ending. And head Teachers are not paid as much as you think certainly not to the x you have suggested. To manage 40 staff, a budget of a few hundred staff, and be responsible for the education and safety of hundreds of children, 60k is not exactly well renumerated.

So HTs I can’t speak for you, but I have close family who are and this is what I see from one of them for the week (I get not everyone is the same).

• getting to school for seven in the morning
• full on day and currently dealing with eight active investigations with police (sexual assault, domestic violence, etc) with students
• 18 kids who in social care and struggling with their placement
• any number of parental complaints everything from my kid didn’t get a part in the play to assault on other children
• ongoing case of assault on the deputy (punched in the face (black eye and everything) from a student
• OFSTED inspection this week
• Numerous exclusions and isolations needing her attention
• dealing with budget cuts and trying to find teachers which is proving difficult
• 6 teachers currently out with MH and stress related issues
• Two students with suicide attempts this week and in hospital
• kid with cancer and supporting them and their family
• Leaving school at 8 pm because there were meetings with social services, police, give it’s etc
• Weekkend work (only 10 hours over the last weekend)
• SEN provision and ECHP - fighting the system and lack of funding
• constantly applying for funding to get what she needs
• ETC ETC ETC

OP wind your neck in. It is impossible to be a HT these days and you have NO idea what some have to deal with or go through or did you simply just not think of that?

Your son was excluded for a reason. They don’t just exclude kids - there is a long and difficult process and the schools have to follow guidelines before they are able. Maybe you don’t know that excluded kids go to other schools and excluded kids are taken into your school?

You have no grasp of the working world or what it takes to be in education now.

I would also assume that you know enough to wash your hands after you go to the toilet and start work with food - guess what? The same soap and water works for thr poo you found.

The vast majority have said you are being unreasonable and yet you still want to argue. Digging in when you are wrong is so distasteful.

So I think my ‘chip’ is more that I’ve seen a member of SLT browsing a supermarket (twice) buying her ‘chips’ - and not looking ‘stretched’ - while hearing that the school are too stretched to support my child. And two others : one excluded in reception, and one in Year1.

So you think she shouldn’t be allowed a lunch break each day? Even if the school are too stretched to support your child, all staff, including the head, are still entitled to a daily break. And if she chooses to spend her break shopping, to save doing it in rush hour on the way home, she is absolutely allowed to do this, no matter what you think.

Also how do you “look” stretched whilst shopping?

The OP's main point seems to be that when she sees the HT, they don't look 'stretched' or stressed or busy enough - this is called being a professional!

Imagine if HTs came into work looking frazzled, complaining about their workload to parents and telling students they were struggling with work - there'd be an uproar!

Hi @AllProperTeaIsTheft I've only read some responses and haven't seen this point referred to (so apologies if it has been): HT and/or SLT being visible and welcoming children and parents in to school is a VERY good thing to be doing with their time, and you should count the school lucky that they have such visible senior staff. Far too many schools shut their senior staff away and only bring them out when the big guns are needed, so there are no relationships between students/parents and senior staff. What you see as time wasting is really a very good use of their time!!

I have to.... its normal whete I work (a labour ward) as you would abandon your break to assist with an emergency if needed.

We also only get 30 minutes so it would be impossible to do a full grocery shop, bring it home, get back, parked and changed on time.

I guess it depends on what you're used to. I'm used to crazy shifts, not getting full breaks, having to stay late unpaid.

Wandering off to the shops is genuinely alien to me 🤷‍♀️

This thread has absolutely an education.

Working in a patient facing role is very different to being a Head Teacher though. It's a non teaching role.

I'm constantly surprised by the energy seemingly normal people put in to caring about absolutely irrelevant and minor shite.

You saw a teacher at Tesco. You don't know the ins and outs entirely. It's not that deep.

Honestly, its not something I'd even give a second thought to. I can only assume a lot of folks have too much time on their hands/space in their heads.... I can barely remember all the stuff I need to know/remember let alone giving a crap about someone's shopping trolley and core working hours 😂

That's really quite a different job though isn't it? A head isn't in a class-based role; they are office based.

It can't be so totally alien for you to understand that a lot of people might have jobs where they can take their unpaid hour/30mins break at a time that is most suitable? I'd go so far as to say most roles have some flexibility in this regard.

DH is a teacher - class-based. He can regularly be found at nearby Tesco or McDonalds at lunch!

Yeah I now understand the role of a head better, its clearly different to what I thought. Now I know 😊

@RedEyePen can you please address the q you've been asked repeatedly? Do you think a HT should not be allowed a break for lunch, regardless of what time they take it? Leave out anything else, just that.