To ask Is nursing really horrific?

[scotchbonnetface]

It’s a bit of a pipe dream, but I always felt I had a “calling” for nursing.

Im getting to the stage where if I don’t do it soon, I never will. But I’m scared.

Maybe I’ve read too many horror stories, but if there are any nurses or HCA that could give me your feelings on the job, I’d really appreciate it.

Ps mental health nursing has changed so much. Often in the community I felt like a cross between a nurse and a social worker or accountant, always working on housing issues, personal budgets etc. Also, the shortage of beds is frustrating. 10 years ago I was shocked to find to ensure a bed for a patient you had to detain someone under the MHA. Now, even detention doesn’t ensure a bed. I worked in a Home Treatment Team in Hackney and would often have to care for people at home who were actually detained under the MHA but we couldn’t get a bed for. Often by the time a bed was found, 2 weeks or so later, it wasn’t needed. Shortfalls in beds meant an increase in stress for community teams.

I work in the NHS alongside nurses. Specialist nurses and nurse managers though, not Band 5. It appears most, understandably, want to get off the wards as soon as they can.

Years ago I actually did start a nursing degree. Liked the theory but the placements were awful. The majority are ward based. Never enough staff, no one to double check doses etc, shifts and night work. It wasn't for me but as I say I'm now another line of staff with nurses as colleagues.

If you enjoy the placements and realise if you can get a job as a lot of Trusts have a recruitment freeze, you might be working on the wards, either for an amount of time to start with, or maybe forever, as where I am it appears to be the number one aim to get away from the wards and shift work.

I was in nursing for 30 years. I did elderly care, disabled adults and palliative care during that time. It was hard, but very rewarding and I loved caring for people. I wasn't in the NHS though, so perhaps had it a bit easier in terms of no bullying cultures and assaults.

Gosh where to begin to explain this....I have only ever worked in theatres my whole career so perhaps a ward nurse could also reply but I honestly think there isn't another profession/sector where such toxic behaviour is seen and tolerated. A few examples...
Surgeons throwing instruments, reported, no action
Surgeons and anaesthetists being rude to or shouting at other staff, no action
Other nurses refusing to help a low staffed theatre or overrunning theatre
A culture of blame where no-one will take responsibility and will allow others to take the blame for mistakes (no consequence to patients thankfully)
Mentors bullying student nurses or just plain ignoring them, refusing to sign off competencies
A culture of not challenging or speaking up about bad behaviour or outdated practice
After raising an issue regarding safety during nightshifts, being told by my band 7 "if you don't like it just leave" (what support eh? Especially as we were short of experienced nurses as it was)
I could go on and on. As previously said you need to be tough and it's not for everyone.
I can remember as a student many years ago a mentor saying to me "ffs not a student, I don't get paid anymore for doing this you know", that was a long placement!
Also some surgeons see scrub nurses as the punchbag when the surgery is not going well, they know you can't challenge them and have a row in the middle of an operation! As I got more confident I would speak up for myself afterwards and earned their respect eventually. But only after crying in the loo many times!
After the shitshow of Covid I left and am now in a lovely private clinic with an amazing happy team where we are all supported and valued. I will NEVER return to the NHS.

No. I’ve been a paediatric nurse for 21 years and I still love it!

You know that robot that had to clean its own oil up, it started out happy, did little dances often then slowly over time it couldnt keep up and just died. That's nursing.

Nursing is amazing and rewarding in the right environment. In the wrong one it will eat you from the inside out.

I've worked in the nhs for over 30 years. I moved from nursing to midwifery. I used to be resilient but now my menopausal brain is frazzled and burnt out. I'm in a leadership role.

The nursing career is attractive for kind, loyal people - we want to care for people. However, we struggle to put in boundaries and work that bit extra to keep things going. It's in our nature to stay on a bit to help someone.

There is a term - moral injury. It means you feel guilty as you provided awful care that wasn't your fault (ie short staffed etc). This is a very real experience that will happen most days within our profession.

Good care takes time, unfortunately the NHS does allow for this :-(

I mean the NHS doesn't allow for this!

Why is it so bitchy and toxic? Is it because it’s generally all women together?

Honestly op?

I'm a nurse and it's the biggest regret of my life. I don't know how/what I could retrain in now with my mortgage and bills to pay but if I could I would.

I see my friends with less qualifications than me earning double and I honestly wonder why I've chosen this nursing life for less financial reward and a whole lot of stress.

I’m a paediatric nurse and work on a surgical ward. I love it, we have a wide range of patients from minor injuries to some awful life changing traumatic injuries, as well as new stomas, children needing IV nutrition (TPN), broken bones, anything.

I do love it but it’s hard hard, busy work. All medications in paediatrics are based on their weight. You have to be able to calculate that medication is prescribed correctly for each child and then make sure you’re giving the correct amount. I spend so much of my time telling doctors they’ve prescribed something incorrectly or suggesting what they should prescribe. It’s infuriating and takes up so much of my time. We really do stop doctors from killing you.

Also playing go between, between various different medical teams is frustrating as I wish they’d just talk to each other.

All the maths can be hard, if I’m tired it’s harder. Then theres the monitoring all the fluid balances (anything that goes in and out), calculating the urine output mls per kg. Making sure all the medication is given, calculated correctly, all the fluid and drug infusions and then putting up the TPN, which can take a while. It’s exhausting work and taxes your brain. Then in all of this you have to find time for patient care, talking to parents, dealing with any conflict or discussions, tube or bottle feeding babies.

Safeguardinf! Oh my goodness the safeguarding, it’s relentless. Children do not always come from nice, safe families. Some don’t even get visitors.

I’m fortunate to work in a supportive team but we do moan a lot. Because it’s hard work. The biggest gripe is management who don’t seem to be bothered if your ward is unsafe either due to lack of staff or too many critically ill patients. They just sit in their office in endless meetings and never help, ever. Instead of coming round for 10 seconds to ask if we’re ok it would be nice if they asked what they could do to help. That’s the part I find demoralising.

Everyone is unkind to each other and no one steps in or stands up.

Just look at the Sandy Peggie stuff and it gives you such a flavour of the dog eat dog environment.

The pressure everyone is working under is immense and yet there is no leeway or compassion for omissions, mistakes or hesitations. It's very much a blame culture where everything has to be someone's fault.

It is often incredibly physical - 13+ hours of sheer physical endeavour with few if any breaks - depending on where you work and who else can cover your patients. You can't even go to the loo when you want (I've bled through my clothes on numerous occasions because you can even take a few minutes away from the floor). Any admission of being tired, wanting to sit down or have a break is seen as being "lazy" or looking to skive, including in pregnancy or when unwell. No one would willingly speak up for fear of being seen as weak....(It's not as overt as this, all unspoken)

Medicine is still hierarchical in places, with some senior doctors still having an image of being untouchable. If you want to question their prescribing or the plan they make for a patient then you have to be brave enough to withstand the potential rant or attempts at belittling you in front of colleagues and patients that will come.

The organisations that you work for will not support you - sickness is punished, there's no study or progression opportunities, you can't park or have to pay huge amounts to park, even if finishing at 1am no one cares that you've got to walk a long way in the dark to your car.

There are no refreshments supplied or available - if you want a hot drink you have to bring all constituent parts to work with you. If there's a disgusting fridge to put your own milk in, there may be no mugs or spoons. Many NHS places have no real food provision and if they do it's not open to fit with shifts, a long way from work zones so you don't have long enough to get there and stand in the queue with everyone else, and pay stupid prices for something horrible anyway. You are not allowed to drink in front of patients so no breaks means no drinks, even if you are on for 12 hours and it's a heatwave.

There's no choice over what to wear, even if you are far too hot or cold at work. You can't control the environment - no way to cool it in baking conditions while you do a very physical job, or to heat it in winter when it's cold.

Very few areas have good equipment with which to do your job so you are expected to buy and supply your own - things like pen torches, watches, scissors, tourniquets etc.

If you raise any sort of concern or issue you are seen as negative, moaning, unable to take it or a trouble maker. No one will support you even if they think the same as you. No manager will believe you or give any weight to your opinion.

Absolutely everything about all the above sends the message that you are not valued, not respected, not important, every single shift.

On my first ever placement as a Student Nurse an HCA warned me "Nurses eat their young".

During my time as a Nurse I met some wonderful, dedicated people who I liked and respected very much. I made some good friends. I also met people who were so exhausted and demoralised by the problems within the system that I guess their way of dealing with it was to stop giving a shit, about your colleagues and in some cases even patients. People who do the absolute bare minimum, don't really see themselves as part of a team and complain about everything all the time, dragging everyone else's mood down. That kind of attitude can be catching, it spreads unfortunately and can become part of the culture.

I never experienced bullying myself when I worked in the NHS but I saw Managers belittle, talk down to and intimidate people. I remember one particular Manager who was well known for cancelling people's annual leave last minute or giving them the most punishing shifts if they ever dared to question or stand up to her. During my time Nursing I knew 2 Managers who were investigated for bullying staff. Neither of them were sacked or demoted, despite an overwhelming amount of evidence, they were just moved to a different team within the Trust.

I think it depends on your team, but in some clinical environments where things are really stressful and staffing levels feel unsafe there's a sense of real fear, that if there was a serious incident no one would have your back, that they would throw you under the bus to save their own skin. This can lead to people being very defensive, almost paranoid and doesn't make for great team relationships.

I have also worked in environments where some Nurses and HCA's were just very cliquey, gossipy and could be quite unkind, or at least unwelcoming, to anyone whose face didn't fit. I'm not sure why. I was fortunate not to be on the receiving end of this myself but I still found it hard to watch.

I think this is a common misconception but honestly, some of the worst bitchiness, shit-stirring and negativity I witnessed was from male Nurses. Usually male Nurses who were mediocre at their jobs but ambitious and keen to ingratiate themselves with Management by making others look bad.

I did it for 25 years and ended up as a burnt out shell of myself. Im an NHS podiatrist now and love that.
It should not be approached as a calling, it is a career. A calling smacks of a sentimental feeling and you will be dissuaded of that pretty damned quick.

I had no idea this was the environment nurses had to work in, sorry for my ignorance. Good god, how does anyone do it? And this is scary both for staff mental wellbeing and surely patient safety?

Christ! I’m so sorry that you all have to work in this environment and feel the way you do. I think I may look elsewhere for a new career path!

is this all recent, as in post Covid? Or was it like this before?

Another poster reminded me, I forgot to mention the assaults.

The fact that I forgot probably tells you something! In certain areas of healthcare it's normalised and seen as part and parcel of the job.

I have worked in areas where assaults on Nurses were very rare. I've also worked in areas where being hit, spat at, pushed, having things thrown at you (including faeces) was a daily occurrence. I had a colleague who had her jaw broken at work and was off with PTSD for a long time.

I was never particularly frightened of being hurt, what bothered me was the attitude Management had towards assaults on their staff moreso than the assualts themselves. They didn't seem to feel any sort of responsibility or duty of care towards their staff. Even though many of the injuries I saw occur to Nurses and HCA's were entirely preventable, and could be attributed to low staffing levels, poor decisions made by Managers or Consultants, or staff not being listened to and taken seriously when they raised concerns about risk.

Having actual shit being thrown at you aggressively and being spat at is actually less upsetting than the people in charge, who are supposed to be responsible for your wellbeing, not making sure you have adequate PPE to protect you, or hiding in their office and not bothering to ask Nursing staff how they are and what they could do to help when they know you've been dealing with constant verbal and physical abuse for days on end.

I started nurse training in 1981 and its always been like that, I think it became really toxic at the end of the 1990's when shifts changed from 7.5 hours to 13 hours. I really don't think anyone can cope with such long shifts, it;s too much and people become angry, tired and difficult to work with.
I love podiatry, progression up the bands is very quick, you'll definitely go up to band 6 or even 7 within a year of qualifying, it's 9 to 5 work with weekends and bank holidays off and the staff are generally lovely and easy to work with.
You work on your own anyway, patients in and out all day 30 minute appointments and home visits and it's acute so mostly wound care, not nail cutting as people think. Always interesting.
I really wish I'd skipped nursing and gone straight into what I do now. There are jobs everywhere as there is a national shortage of podiatrists.

Also paediatrics on a surgical ward. I could have written this myself. But my ward manager is lovely and we all get on really well.

I’m an ICU nurse and definitely wouldn’t pick nursing again. It’s good for job security, always extra shifts and it works with my husbands job atm with our young children.
However, 3 nurses on our unit have been assaulted by patients this year so badly they have had to have significant time off. One still has problems with balance. Nothing will be done to the perpetrators (they just say they were confused from the meds etc.) One of them was a really nasty piece of work who was laughing about it with a relative. The entitlement of the general public and the way people seem to instantly think errors have been made/care is substandard is just infuriating. Since Covid it seems to have got worse, I’m assume with all the antivax stuff out there people don’t trust medical staffs opinion or believe they have an ulterior motive.

Of course there are many lovely patients and relatives but I’m just fed up of being treated like crap every shift. It used to be a rare shift but now it feels like it’s every day. I did go non clinical for a few years and that was much better but I need shift work again for childcare so here I am!

This thread is so sad.

And it’s interesting to see that ward nurses are the most unhappy, and those in paediatrics, specialist nursing and primary care are reasonably happy.

Reading this thread is so interesting, there so much that is true.

Having to bring in your own food or drink provisions, the only thing we ever get given is from the patients who give us biscuits or chocolate when we send them home (and we’re extremely grateful). Our mugs and cutlery all go missing. It’s red hot on the wards at the minute yet for some reason we can’t be seen to have a drink, even by patients. Try going 12+ hours without one. Sometimes I don’t have time for a wee.

We used to get a cake or something for Nurse’s day. This year we got nothing.

Poor or incompetent staff just get moved around from one dept to another. Management move sideways more often than we can count, yet you never see any job being advertised. You move up if your face fits, that’s for sure.

However I have made some wonderful friends, gained an awful sense of humour and I’m very tired.

I had a manager who said it looked ‘unprofessional’ for us to be seen drinking and she wanted us to keep our bottles in the staff room. It wasn’t far to go was it? Except it was…it was 50 paces out of sight of patients. Most of the time we had patients who needed 1:1 supervision and no staff to do 1:1. You couldn’t leave them. If the other staff member was behind curtains or on break, you couldn’t have a drink?! I hid mine behind folders on the trolley. Easy enough for her to say when she sat in the office while we ran around on the ward!

The ones who’ve done well for themselves love it. I had a band 7 tell me the other day she was bored shitless and had nothing to do. Meanwhile the b5s were rushing around like blue arsed flies. This is crit care btw.
Essentially if you’re ambitious, confident, gobby you’ll do well. Or a man. One colleague was qualified a few years. He talked the talk. Got the b6 post. Still lazy. We’re in a situation where B6s rarely take patients because they’re ‘coordinating’. Hence not having a clue how to use equipment despite being ‘super users’. It’s an absolute joke. Want an easy life, get promoted.