Teaching OMG!

[LucilleBluth]

I have been training to teach this year. I started my PGCE as a 43 year old in September 2024. I’m about to finish it-well I say that. I’m feel like I’m hitting rock bottom with two weeks to go. I have worked in schools as support staff before so I wasn’t totally blind and I have good friends who are teachers, but oh my god, it is such hard work. The workload is insane-the kids are lovely but I’m dealing with so much extra stuff like SEN, EAL is off the charts, behaviour, kids without equipment and who can’t cope unless a lesson is chunked and scaffolded so much I may as well spoon feed it.

I don’t feel I can do it full time so I applied for a Cover Supervisor role-15 qualified teachers applied for a £21000 year job, I,didn't get it. What’s the point

Teacher pay needs doubling. I’ve been awake since 1am.

Gosh this is so depressing. Thank you so much to those of you still in teaching. You are massively underpaid. But parents like me value what you do hugely

oh gawd this post made me cringe.

Ah, NM. You'll recover 😂

What’s wrong with it today..?

Have you read the thread?

That's interesting @Ciaroscuro what is the objection to having specialist teaching and resources?

I have no skin in this game as my DC are in their 20s (albeit one is a teacher).
I always felt that SEN schools were a good idea as the children got specialist teaching from people with training rather than unqualified TAs.

As others have said it’s nothing to do with pay. It’s about the workload, being responsible for everything, The intensity of it cannot be imagined by most people. So no thanks I’m not going into teaching anytime soon.

Try a private school op. Less Sen and stricter rules. Less feral kids.

I imagine for some it goes against the White Paper and UNCRC Salamanca Statement back in 1994 (I think), in which it said parents have the right to choose for their children to be educated in a Mainstream setting as opposed to a specialist setting. So for some, they may see it as a soft approach back to the segregation of children with SEN into specialist settings.

@soalall public sector services are paid more in Scotland….no idea why! I’m a nurse and live not that far from the boarder and always tempted to apply for jobs across the boarder but it’s too long of a commute.
same with Canadian pay, health workers , teachers etc are paid more in Canada.

@Horserider5678I do agree. If a nurse is qualified for 5 years their pay is stays the same take home pay £2314 for full time (unless you go up a grade…..hell of a lot more responsibility!!! and we need senior band 5 nurses to function) teacher on their M6 (assuming that they go up a scale per year with no added responsibility) take home pay is £2754.
The press do like a good debate around that.
As said in my previous post I have a lot of friends who are teachers…the one thing we do, is acknowledge we both have challenging but rewarding jobs that are necessary to society. They would never say to me that their pay is terrible to me as they know they do get paid more and say we should get the same. They know their audience 🤣

😆

Teachers are only moved up a pay band if they meet the standards in their annual review....this is often carried out by the HT, who also has the responsibility of balancing the books....conflict!

@TheCaloricDeclinesame with nurses…ward managers/team leaders…in charge of budget.

@TheCaloricDeclinestarting salaries in teaching are higher that nurses. Take home pay nurse: £1984 and teacher: £2105 (both not taking into account student loans) and nurses can only move up after 2 years (if their manager agrees)

In my post I said my teacher friends do not discuss pay as they know they get paid more.

I think it’s really important we avoid oversimplified comparisons, especially between two underpaid, overworked professions like teaching and nursing. Both are essential and both face significant challenges but comparing a Band 5 nurse to a teacher on £45,350 isn't an equal match.

Band 5 nurses earn around £28k–£34.5k, not £37.5k unless they’ve progressed to the very top or are working unsocial hours regularly.

A teacher on £45,350 is not newly qualified, that salary reflects someone at the top of the main pay scale, often with nearly a decade of experience. Many are in the Upper Pay Range, which requires evidence of sustained contribution beyond the classroom.

To match Band 5, you'd be looking at an early-career teacher, such as:
Main Pay Range (MPR) in England (outside London):
M1: £30,000
M3: around £33,814
M6: up to £41,333
So, Band 5 = M1 to M4 teacher level, roughly.

And while some teachers receive TLRs (Teaching and Learning Responsibility payments), they come with extra workload and are not guaranteed — and there are no pay rises for experience alone beyond the set points.

Also worth noting: nurses do have clear promotion pathways into Band 6 and beyond, and can also earn additional pay through unsocial hours, overtime, and specialist roles. So the idea that teachers “earn significantly more” isn’t quite accurate without context.

The truth is both professions are struggling with workload, burnout, and pay that doesn’t reflect the responsibility they carry. Turning it into a competition distracts from the fact that both need better conditions, not just one.

Sympathies as l couldn't think of anything worse. The relentless targets, OFSTED, the parents etc it would drain the life out of me. I say this as a forensic mental health nurse who has worked in prisons, courts, secure services etc so regularly interacts with murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc

Your description of the ‘long’ summer holiday made me feel ill. That was exactly what it was like. The last week in particular was agony.

Thank goodness I’m out of it now.

It’s not the pay. It’s mainly the behaviour of the children, who have not been taught manners, how to listen to simple instructions, to accept that sometimes yes means yes and no means no. It’s also the behaviour of the parents (demanding, whose precious children all must win a prize all the time, the over involved as well as the very much under involved parents …). Then there’s SEN - no one’s fault, but it’s there. (It’s not Covid! It’s not the pay! It’s the behaviour …….)

Best answer 👏 👌

But the point is, teachers shouldn't be pitted against children for funding within each school.
There's no other sector where it works like that. Paying GPs more doesn't mean your appointments are reduced to 3 minutes.
In Ireland, it doesn't work like that. You have enough children to need another teacher, their salary is funded direct by the DfE. It benefits everyone because more experienced teachers aren't managed out through being more expensive (and then you lose the expertise for newer teachers to learn from). Just a more strategic, longer term view.

@Bunnycat101

"One of the best teachers in my children’s school has done the same year for the past 10 years. There won’t be anything about that year she hasn’t seen or done before. That is going to give a very different experience to picking up a role for the first time."

Unfortunately .unlike in the past, teachers are now expected to move year groups frequently.

No, they shouldn't but they are and the government knows that a pay rise for teachers is generally unsupported by the public, so they can.

Government "We are giving more money to the Education sector to fund schools provision" - accepted by the public.

"We are awarding Teachers a 3% pay rise fully funded" - General public - "BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THE HOLIDAYS THEY HAVE, INSET DAYS, THEY ONLY WORK 9-3, THEY NEED TO GET A REAL JOB, BLOODY TEACHERS".

The government knows this and uses this to their advantage.

Consider that it's because it's bloody hard?

@TheCaloricDeclineno one compared a newly qualified with a M6t…..there are salary calculators online:

https://mypaycalculator.co.uk/teacher

https://nursingnotes.co.uk/nhs-pay-calculator/#google_vignette

Even with those comparisons…at starting pay (teachers start on more) ….top band 5 pay and M4…….teachers basic salary is more.

This is why I said we don’t compare.

A hell of a lot Band 5 nurses are certainly not at the start of their career and are the backbone of all services in and out of hospital. Senior nursing roles are hard to come by due to funding. My trust has recently put out voluntary severance to save money.
Yes they can get enhanced pay working unsociable hours but a hell of a lot of my friends couldn’t do weekend work, nights, working bank holidays: Christmas/New year etc.
I prefer shift work, they say they would hate it.
I would love to have all school holidays off….they don’t have to worry about childcare for 13 hour shifts in the holidays.
I work 13 hour shifts over weekend in the holidays (opposite to my husband) so I only need to sort 1 day childcare.
They would love to go and do something at their child’s school during term time when parents are invited in.
I’ve got the flexibility to do some of that.

Its like apples and oranges!

Again this is why I said we don’t discuss! We are both aware of our careers having their own challenges and respect that.

We don’t discuss pay.
I’m top band 6 at 30 hours per week (qualified 15 years) and top band 5s take home more than me.

How do you know you would make a good teacher?