Did women ever stand a chance?

[whynotmereally]

Dawson creek, my so called life, grease, dirty dancing , the breakfast club, Gilmore girls, ginny and Georgia, fifty shades of grey, most Colleen Hoover books.

Girls/women are constantly fed this story about the bad guy that needs saving. He’s misunderstood but it’s ok because he really loves her. Is it any wonder women keep putting up with crap from men when it’s been normalised/romanticised from a young age?

Who was the bad guy in Dawson Creek?

I think this is a s part of a much much bigger picture tbh. Until recently in history women have had almost no choices…

there was an interesting video documentary I saw last week by the guardian on YouTube talking about the far right and young men’s political trends - it touches on women’s’ inequality and women’s history. Thought it was very interesting! You’re not wrong that women have the tables stacked against them, even now in 2025.

Agreed. Even Sleeping with the Enemy had her running straight into another relationship with a saviour male.

Some of us can differentiate between real life and the fictional life.

Paced over Dawson

Yes so not even always a bad guy just a guy. I recently watched the show maid and she was rescued by men including her attacker!

You are right

Pacey had a sense of moral integrity, very strong principles, stood up to a bully of a dad. Dawson was a selfish whiny man-baby who emotionally manipulated everyone around him and deserved to be left crying on the deck when she ran off after Pacey. Maybe it showed she recognised that!!

And I realise there is a bigger point here and I may be over-invested in DC 🤣

It starts earlier than that. Beauty and the Beast. He kidnaps her dad, then swaps the dad for her. Then shouts at her. But because she is sweet and likes animals he turns nice.

You're not wrong but I disagree that Pacey was the bad guy - he had his issues but he sorted them out himself and became the man Joey needed. He was amazing for Andie too. Dawson, on the other hand, was a spoilt, entitled, whiny, manipulative twat. I feel very strongly about this 😅

It both is and isn't as simple.as that.

It starts even younger with fairytales. They began as an oral tradition in France where nannies would tell them to the aristocratic children in their care to teach them how boys and girls should be. In Perrault's version of Cinderella, the stepsisters weren't ugly. They were just older and one chopped off her own toes to make her foot fit the glass slipper. The blood she she'd was representative of menstrual blood and indicated that she wasn't very young or virginal. At a time when men wanted to marry young girls who were barely more than children. Nowadays, they're 'ugly' stepsisters to reflect the fact that we now prioritise beauty in women above all else.

And we see that reflected on here all the time. Women asking when other women's looks began to fade, contemplating/ having cosmetic procedures to make themselves more beautiful,

So many women prioritise 'typical' male hero attributes in a partner. Some women confer all sorts of positive qualities on men who are tall, good looking and earn well (the real life equivalent of the handsome Prince) without looking at their actual character. You see it on here a lot where a woman posts about concerns or being treated badly by a boyfriend and don't know what to do but offer "he's tall, good looking and has a high paying job" as pros.

Men get criticised a lot on here (and generally) for being influenced by porn in terms of what they expect from women sexually. But each sex has been given a 'blueprint' for how they and the opposite sex should 'be' and what they should expect. And, aside from porn, we generally get our messages from the same places - films and books.

Cross-posted with you! I am also over-invested 😂

On the other hand, I blame my teenage obsession with Wuthering Heights for the fact I spent many, many years chasing the Heathcliffes and overlooking the good men. So I do think you're right.

Isn’t it just very soft porn for women and about as realistic. Sexual fantasy isn’t always sensible. In the same way men would be ill advised to settle down with a women who is eager to have a threesome with any tradesman that comes knocking.

I get what you mean but Dawson was the villain!

Joey didn't save Pacey, he saved himself and then they got together.

Dawson was a bratty manchild.

What annoys me are song lyrics. I'm just thinking of a few, off the top of my head:

I don't care about those other girls, just be good to me
Hurt So Good (hints at abuse but she'll put up with it because she luurrvvs him)
I'll be waiting and some day darling you'll come to me when you want to settle down
My forbidden lover, I don't want no other
Hopelessly devoted to you
It's the same old story, you care but you don't love me ... But I'll always be around...

All heard on R2 yesterday.

Yes.

A lot of literature is based around the idea that women can tame the beast.

It also gives the impression that a man's character is/can be formed by the woman he is with and that men don't know their own minds.

Which could be argued as part of the reason why women feel responsible for keeping relationships together and making them work. For some, a man's poor behaviour is a reflection of the woman.

I reluctantly got rid of the dvds a while back but kept the 2 hour finale special. It streams on itv or ch4 now and then. Always was Team Pacey. I love the episode when ? compares him and Dawson to Han Solo and Luke Skywalker..though I suppose that pair also somewhat fall into what the op is talking about it. Luke is never a love interest for anyone.

Luke is never a love interest for anyone.

But he'd also have been a far better bet for anyone as a partner than Han Solo.

Apologies to the Dawson creek fans! That’s how he started out I swear!

If it’s subconsciously fed to you from early childhood through books, tv, role models, school. How can you know the impact it had on your choices. ?

It certainly made me think as a teenager and young adult that if I was nice and sweet and kind and didn't get upset about things he'd eventually Pick Me. I thought patience was a virtue. They didn't Pick Me. And looking back and looking at them now thank Christ they didn't. I wouldn't pick them.

Because I've got a brain and know what I think and feel.

No, it really is that simple. I could be told a thousand times in a thousand different ways that Trump is a good guy but I still wouldn't believe it because I am able to make up my own mind on things and other women can too. Of course they can.