Is our town a shithole..

[FroggletTowers]

Or is this happening anywhere else?

I have been discussing this with friends, family and colleagues recently so won't name our town for privacy reasons, but it is a regular, large town in England, UK.
Nothing particularly special or awful about it, previously.

Since the pandemic, the entire vibe has changed. Almost unrecognisable.
Yes, we have some heavy shop closures like many towns, but the council kept it looking decent as much as it could. Some nice buildings and nature areas, etc.

What stands out most, apart from the general vandalism and dog shit is the weird accumulation of male groups hanging around boozing in public.

So far they have taken over the local park, river walks and nature reserves. They often cluster beneath bridges or across paths where people like to run, cycle walk dogs or take children, making it less safe and filling these areas with waste. Off road bikes have ruined the nature reserves, so less people visit

Sadly the authorities don't seem to be doing much about it, it is as if these people don't have to abide by laws that the rest of us have to. Some buildings adjacent to these areas have windows put through on a regular basis, even in what you'd call 'nice' areas.
Many of them cluster at river bridges and block the path for others, most are very drunk or out of generally.
It isn't unusual to see a large man passed out across the pathway, blocking anyone getting past. If you had a pram or bike it would be really uncomfortable to have to rouse a large drunk at 2pm in the afternoon. Most are local men, with a growing amount of middle eastern men. The vast majority of them are unstable.

We see less women out cycling, walking or exercising now, and this encompasses both MC and WC areas. These people seem to have just multiplied and spread across the entire borough and have taken over all public space.
We live in a decent area that is now seeming to go downhill.
It isn't unusual to see day drinkers sat alone, surrounded by cans on a quiet residential street. And they won't move to let you past.

It's really depressing.

Town centres are dying because people won't spend more when there's a cheaper alternative (OOT retail and the internet). People are also lazy and won't walk, and often town centre car parks are a total rip off, because local authorities see them as cash cows and lack the initiative and bravery to think of alternative revenue.

Once footfall decreases in town centres, there's inevitable degradation.

I won't talk about immigration too much because I'll be labelled a bigot, but I think you'd have to be naive at best if you think that huge numbers of unemployed/low paid males coming into a completely different culture where women have a very different status is going to have a positive effect on social cohesion.

Plus - and this might sound contentious but it really isn't - there's the death of shame as a concept. No longer are many people ashamed to be seen in public off their faces in the middle of the day. They're not ashamed to be seen behaving loudly or aggressively in public because there's literally no consequence. Many people are surrounded by unchallenged terrible behaviour from the moment they draw their first breath, and they think it's the norm. And depressingly, it IS the norm. There's no pride in anything for its own sake, such as contributing to community or doing something for others.

The pandemic helped make people more selfish, more entitled, more badly behaved. And the countless billions the country spaffed away on furlough and grants mean there's fuck all money left. Despite being taxed more than we ever have, more and more of this is just going on the debt.

😁 Why, yes!

It sounds like your town council could do more to police and maintain the town centre.

I do think that's a big difference between center we are close to and town center down the road. The council down the raod have done everything they can to hang onto the shopping center and bring people in - indeed last town we lived in was very proactive and their shopping center still busy and kept many more shops.

Current council we're under has grand ideas that tend not to pan out as expected. The local collge wanted to move into a city space and council have had an issue with it - would mean students and staff in center. Local housing doing up flats above shop to rent out have found them a barrier. They knocked down the lesuire center few years ago and closed it before covid - and have yet to break ground on new site and when they do it's not in center. They keep okaying more out of town shopping sites with one of two big stores - again leading people away from the center. So footfall continues to decline and now they are talking about big road works that will impact access to center - though no-one clamouring for the propsed change all groups seem to be against it- it changes it back to layout two decades ago which also had problems - yet they are ploughing ahead.

This . If we didn’t have rubbish feral people any area could be significantly improved . No-one has any sense of pride or care about anywhere , antisocial behaviour is the scourge of most communities.

My son went to university in a west Yorkshire town 1998-2001. He had a great experience. Went back six years ago on business just before COVID so summer 2019. He was dismayed at the changes and how run down it was.

Going back can be a shock.

Originally from a rough council estate in Derby too and agree with everything you say. I moved away to a town slightly further south - was ok when I first moved, and nicer living in a town rather than a city. Now, not so much. Constant traffic issues, homeless and drug addicts everywhere which we never used to see, many many incidents of teenage boys mugging and stabbing, an abundance of vape shops, kebab shops and Turkish barbers and not much else. At least Derby are trying in the city centre with the regeneration of various places.

So, does anyone think there is any hope for areas that end up like this?
I have a horrible feeling the problems are too ground in and complex at this point.

I do agree with PP who said those who can will leave, and the properties will go further down hill.

I feel for those who can't leave.
I have a disabled friend in her 60's who lives in a rough place (it wasn't when she first bought it), a good amount of violence and drug related issues on her street in recent years.
She is jammed stuck right in the middle of that and can't afford to move. She doesn't have family who can help her, and has worsening health problems. Her home has been vandalised countless times, and she has endured abuse and sexual harassment from neighbouring residents.
She gave up trying to get the police or council to help.

Anyone who purchased close to the town centre regret it now.

I think that this does give people the impression that the council only care for the needs of the troublemakers, whether this is true, or not true..

Too few jobs. Too many poorly paid jobs. Lack of meaning and purpose in peoples, especially men’s, lives. General dissolution of the social glue that enabled large amounts of people to live very closely together. I go into Birmingham occasionally and there are so many young men clearly without much structure in their lives. Humans need purpose and meaning and structure. Otherwise a kind of fatalistic nihilism takes root.

Sounds like here in Peterborough. I grew up in the city, it was lovely and peaceful with excellent links to London and nature walks. May I say before anyone jumps down my neck, it was always a multiracial city. My once favourite street was a mix of British and Asian families. The crime became too high to stay there, especially theft and sexual assaults. It's not just the 'white' people who are disheartened.

Unfortunately the council allowed too many HMOs and hotels housing boat people etc. With a massive shortage of housing many eastern European men are living in bushes, drinking and taking drugs, and the area that was a nature walk is now a no-go. The hotels that are housing immigrants are no-go areas, especially for young women.

The city centre is trash, John Lewis closed shop a few years ago. Many offices and buildings in the city centre are now flats. Many people left the city to live in the surrounding towns. This made way for even more HMO.

I blame it on the council, obviously desperate for back handers and quick money making schemes. It seems to have gone too far too reverse the damage.

What more can I say, apart from I fully understand you. And although I didn't vote in the last election, I can understand why people are voting Reform. It is about time the people were listened to.

Pubs are very expensive / or are closing / or are wanting better class of customer for their gentrified gastro pub , so street drinking cheaper
culturally Middle Eastern men drink with men women are at home with kids

i haven't noticed this particularly in NE London but I have noticed a sharp up turn in graffiti and kids getting mugged for phones and car break in are frequent

police do not have the recourses to deal with this low level unpleasantness and the nhs does not have the recourses to help alcoholics like they used to
charitable organisations for mental health and addiction are struggling to survive as donations are down due to cost of living

shops are closing due to raising cost and the death of the high street with it jobs

and so it goes on, no money for regeneration

Same here.

We have two people who sell the Big Issue, but no people begging. We certainly don't have people lying in parks etc, drunkenness is occasionally a thing in the town centre when the pubs close, but not routinely.

We have lost a fair few shops (I especially miss the hardware shop, you have to do a minimum 15-mile round trip for any of that sort of stuff now), but they have mostly been either converted into houses at the top end of town, or become antique shops, very high end boutiques, or coffee shops. I swear you could have a cup of coffee every day for at least a fortnight without ever going in the same place twice.

I think this is a very significant factor. The problem existed before, but it tended to be out of sight to most of us because these men spent hours in rough, cheap pubs.

I live near a major town (population 230,000)which I never shop in. When I was a teenager it had three department stores and a good selection of shops. It now has lots of charity shops, barbers, phone shops and absolutely nothing else. It's pretty filthy and there are lots of drunks and alleys used for toilets. Developers are building £600k+ houses and the only shops are on out of town retail parks. My adult DC won't let me visit the town centre on my own incase I get mugged. I went to a revamped marks and spencer food hall on Sunday and it was packed. That shop is on an out of town clean bright development. Tbh I'm ashamed that it looks like it does. It's not a poor town (average wage £40k) and is surrounded by well healed villages but it is a sh*thole. It made the chancellors list.

Sounds like Bedford. I don't live there any more but family do.

Probably not the same but sounds similar to here.

If it's Nottingham, then yes it is a shithole and I used to think it was quite nice in the 1990s.

Do you call the police when you see this ?
can you volunteer for or set up a centre for mentally unwell alcoholic so they get off the street

New York mayor years ago set up wet rooms all across new youk so alcoholics had a space to go and drink and get off the street sponsored by alcohol companies if I remember correctly ! ( the thinking that drinking their product on the street was bad branding so lure them away from public view) It was to improve the look of the city so no one saw drunks and homeless

Yes a town near me is just like this. There is a water feature that men sit and drink by all day. The town is failing and the council are blaming it on negative press, ignoring the reality that town is intimidating.
There is a big ‘improvement’ scheme going on, for outdoor events and foots trucks etc. the reality is the new open area will just be more of the same. And the council can’t ban town centre drinking as it ruins these plans.
Someone mentioned York and I’m there regularly. I think towns like that with large numbers of tourists/out of town shoppers will always buck the trend and not representative of what’s going on. Although my friend works there and said the amount of money people spend in town is seriously down.

How do you propose to sell your house then with this attitude? Are you going to lie about the area?

It does sound depressing op. It isn't so bad here but I have noticed an uptick in crime, car theft and mugging etc, litter, dog poop lately, all of which is also bad.

Unfortunately the council allowed too many HMOs and hotels housing boat people etc.

What is the etc. here?

What more can I say, apart from I fully understand you. And although I didn't vote in the last election, I can understand why people are voting Reform. It is about time the people were listened to

How is Reform proposing to solve all these deep rooted issues?

Could it be down to homelessness? The homeless were found places to stay during the pandemic, so weren't visible, and rough sleepers are predominantly male.

They have to hang around the streets during the day because they often don't have anywhere else to go. Funding for projects for the homeless have been cut consistently for years now.

You know rivers flow into the sea right?

It needs the decent people to stand up for what's right, and not be afraid of speaking up and speaking out. It needs people to continue to stubbornly use their town centres and demonstrate what normal behaviour is. It needs talented and imaginative town councils and local authorities who attract investment and reward innovation. It needs a strong identity and culture and community events.

I live in a reasonably deprived Cornish town. I readily admit that it's a much nicer place than Derby for example. But we have some really proactive people here and there's a lot being done. There are problems with moany twats who just sit around slagging the place off. But we are managing to hold off the worst of what's being described on this thread.

Yes, I thought this.