Is our town a shithole..

[FroggletTowers]

Or is this happening anywhere else?

I have been discussing this with friends, family and colleagues recently so won't name our town for privacy reasons, but it is a regular, large town in England, UK.
Nothing particularly special or awful about it, previously.

Since the pandemic, the entire vibe has changed. Almost unrecognisable.
Yes, we have some heavy shop closures like many towns, but the council kept it looking decent as much as it could. Some nice buildings and nature areas, etc.

What stands out most, apart from the general vandalism and dog shit is the weird accumulation of male groups hanging around boozing in public.

So far they have taken over the local park, river walks and nature reserves. They often cluster beneath bridges or across paths where people like to run, cycle walk dogs or take children, making it less safe and filling these areas with waste. Off road bikes have ruined the nature reserves, so less people visit

Sadly the authorities don't seem to be doing much about it, it is as if these people don't have to abide by laws that the rest of us have to. Some buildings adjacent to these areas have windows put through on a regular basis, even in what you'd call 'nice' areas.
Many of them cluster at river bridges and block the path for others, most are very drunk or out of generally.
It isn't unusual to see a large man passed out across the pathway, blocking anyone getting past. If you had a pram or bike it would be really uncomfortable to have to rouse a large drunk at 2pm in the afternoon. Most are local men, with a growing amount of middle eastern men. The vast majority of them are unstable.

We see less women out cycling, walking or exercising now, and this encompasses both MC and WC areas. These people seem to have just multiplied and spread across the entire borough and have taken over all public space.
We live in a decent area that is now seeming to go downhill.
It isn't unusual to see day drinkers sat alone, surrounded by cans on a quiet residential street. And they won't move to let you past.

It's really depressing.

Yeah, fair dos. I didn't fully think that one through, did I. 😅

Can't recall the last time I saw the police in recreational areas, where most of the issue is.

I’m in Hyde, greater Manchester and this is exactly how it’s gone round here. So many shops closing, our shopping centre is like a ghost town nowadays and the only places that survive the test of time are takeaways and vape shops

Also getting a large influx of homeless people/addicts walking up and down the main road, actually inbetween cars with a cup asking for money. Sad

Isn't it likely to have a lot to do with the fact people who have money to spend are doing so online or in big out of town shopping centres, hence the slightly smarter and independent shops and cafes, restaurants etc. closing due to lack of footfall, and retail units being boarded up or occupied by low rent places that appeal to people who don't have credit/ debit cards to shop online, or don't have much money and are just hanging around. Additionally a lot of cheaper town centre pubs closing because the business model is no longer profitable (someone mentioned weather spoons - cheap places day drinkers hung out yes, but cheap places with toilets they could use that gave them a place to meet up other than parks, pedestrian zones and bus stops etc).

It's a spiral isn't it? Initially started because people stopped spending as much money in town centers due to big out of town shopping centers having more choice, and the convenience of online shopping, then escalated during the pandemic and some town centers were then too far gone - people with money to spend no longer have a reason to go in, so there's a change in use of the space, away from consumption and retail and gastronomy and towards betting shops and people with nowhere else to go realising that they can hang around there because there are no longer businesses owners putting pressure on the police and council to move them on.

Not going to the town centre makes the town centre decline - then when you do decide to go once in a blue moon, you finally notice that it's not somewhere you want to go - because nobody's been going, so it's got run down.

Not a conspiracy, more lethagy and neglect and expecting "someone else" to keep businesses going, just in case you fancy going into town once a year and want it to look thriving and affluent.

God this is awful. I have heard similar.
I am sorry any of us have to witness anything like that.
No one, regardless how or where we grew up ought to be subject to such a shitty environment. I do wish things were different, and I can't say I have much hope in the near future.

I know quite a few towns like this, and it is a growing number. Lots of factors increasing street drinking. Growing number of young people still living at home. More and more people housed in HMOs without social spaces. More and more people housed "temporarily" in hostels and b&bs where you have to leave during the day. Fewer employment opportunites for unskilled or low-educated or hard-to-employ men.

When the street drinking starts to become noticeable, people move away from it. Those houses become more HMOs etc, the day drinkers are not so diluted by the rest of society and become more obvious, they increase as a proportion of locals, they take over more space and the cycle continues.

With regard to the nature reserves, I am aware of several that have become ASB hot spots precisely because measures were taken to cut down these behaviours in town centres. The problem was just relocated rather than dealt with.

Yes to a lot of people appearing angry.
I have definitely noticed this not only in my nearest, pretty affluent city but also in the ever growing village where I live.

Absolutely. I think some on this thread might be unable to grasp that it's getting a bit harder to find naice places these days because there simply isn't the money to make them naice. If people are so out of touch with what austerity has done to this country, then they should think themselves lucky instead of complaining places aren't as bijou as they'd like them to be.

I moved to England a decade ago and I remember feeling shocked by the amount of ASB in some areas. However it didn’t stop me going to the town centre.

I prefer to avoid it nowadays though. I don’t think it is a lot worse, but I think I have changed since I became a mum. I didn’t mind hanging out in the past myself, but now I feel I want to shelter my children and I have got a lower tolerance level for that crap you describe.

It's like that here - though white british men and few loud mouthed women.

There have been som HMO and other hostels set up near town center but honestly I think teh problem predates them.

So over the years we slowly start to go to nearby town with nice shopping center or nearby city especially as so many shops are lost in our center. We don't drive and pulbic transport here is expensive so we are some of the last to do so - but it's a sprial of decline.

Though went to town I grew up near recently - and it was just dead - no-one around and loss of shops. That was odd too.

Only been a few cities centers that we've been to that feel lively at all.

In our area the majority of HMOs seem to be filled with single Eastern European men, Polish, Lithuanian, Romanian, and a number of them have huge problems with alcohol. Judging from posts on the local next door app young men from largely Asian backgrounds share rooms in family properties as lodgers.

Are you Matt Vickers, OP?

Everyone shops online via Amazon or some other foreign owned seller, we buy Chinese made goods and if we go to supermarkets much is imported food- so all the money that used to go to British manufacturers, shop owners,tax from shop owners to council, uk farmers, uk food processors goes out of the country.
So our money is gone elsewhere -so there is nothing to pay for stuff here. No construction,public transport, etc etc etc

Amazon will completely take over for everything. Huge, ugly warehouses will continue to be built and become full of imports from China and there will be no need for any other shops eventually. We are being laid to waste in this country and it’s all by design.

Well it's all by convenience. If I could get what I buy on Amazon in my town centre, with decent customer service, then I would. Amazon fills a consumer need - quality goods, fast delivery.

@Mishmashs because both Reform and Daily Mail plus most media offer only criticism of anything that does not fit their political agenda. See for example the Winter fuel allowance-absolute outrage , so yes a bit of reflection and back tracking and then we get headlines such as ‘our children will be paying for this’ - they offer no reflection on why things are as they are in society that doesn’t fit their agenda of blaming it on anytime that isn’t white British or doesn’t suit the views of mainly older people or those who don’t like foreigners whose first language isn’t British or those who aren’t obsessively patriotic because they know where their bread is buttered or where they can count on votes. Pure self interest. I’m not an ardent lefty, very much in the centre but the obsession with pandering to white van man or ‘a lot of’ ( not all) the elderly population is supremely depressing. Farage and his ilk have no actual solutions for society’s ills that don’t come at very considerable cost to either pockets, personal welfare or environmental issues , they are utterly retrogressive- but some people just hear the headlines- maybe the Mail and the Express should start having some proper neutral journalism examining issues- im
open minded, I’ve even agreed with Dan Hodges a few times on Twitter -

the fact is the reasons we have real issues are multi faceted. The country has done some really stupid things starting with Thatcher for short termism - selling off social housing was one, selling off utilities anotger( although I agree with telecoms as other options were available and encouraged competition). I still though can’t get my water from Welsh reservoirs regardless of who I pay my bill too or dictate where my electricity actually comes in from.

then we have the fact we had a lot of ‘big’ spaces in towns - be that banks, BJS, Debenhams, Littlewoods, Woolworths, Wilkinson’s etc - these left huge blank spaces when they exited that are hard to fill given the fact we have horrendously high rents and business rates AND a declining footfall due to online shopping - so we get a few more mid range restaurants - not necessarily great when COL has gone through roof for many and stagnating wages. We have in many parts of the country people forced into private rentals and just about coping but not much spare cash , huge child care costs and until recently very little subsidies for any under 3s -

then of course we have Brexit in the mix, whether or not you agree with it and I personally think pointless and expensive, it’s made it that blokes if a bit short of work can’t just go off and do a contract in the EU , especially in trades- reverse of course is also true, and areas that were regularly getting improvement funds are now not seeing this nor do any big EU employers rush to base themselves here - I wouldn’t either.

we lived in Copenhagen for 20 months- it’s not difficult to pinpoint why they have less issues - it’s very much a society will look after you but you do your bit mentality - most couples work and mainly full time or at least 25 hours- childcare is very cheap and good quality, no council tax, lots of very good social housing, tax is high , anti social behaviour totally frowned on . There isn’t this mentality of let’s screw the system and work as little as we can get away with and get top ups - it’s just a very different mentality . Apart from a few quite deprived areas with mainly non EU immigrants where it did seem a bit more disordered on the whole it was very ordered , and order was expected , no doubt some would think boring .

Local town is very deprived and has massive drug problems, and lots of boarded up shops. However we don’t see big groups of drinkers in parks etc because it’s illegal to drink in public except in licensed outdoor premises. Each council here can make its on rules on outdoor consumption of alcohol (Scotland). Of course the rules are flouted but I think they still act as a bit of a deterrent.

There’s no doubt that Amazon is convenient.

To my knowledge, in this town, the overwhelming majority of the issues concern white british men.
Due to a very small yet growing contingent of immigrant drinkers, the town has decided that immigration is the cause of all of these problems.

You can't even reason with that kind of logic. So I don't try. It is a waste of time.

The issues were clearly growing over time.
It has only recently become visible here.

My closest town isn't like that. There is a town order that prohibits drinking alcohol on the streets. The council has been careful to maintain the town centre regardless of covid. We had some shop closures of course but we also have two farmers markets and a general market each week. We have a Victorian park with renovated bandstand used every weekend. We have a bowling green, public tennis courts, boating lake, skateboard park and outdoor gym. All well maintained.

The town hall is used for art exhibitions and dance competitions, the canal has barges. We still have a cricket club, race course and lido. I've never felt unsafe even after dark, and I cycle and run on my own a lot.

They've mostly avoided out off town shopping and so our cinema and theatre are still in the town centre. They work hard on an events calendar and keeping the place clean. . It is generally a nice place to live, although we also have a very small 'tent city' tucked away out of sight, which is ludicrous in an area with stud farms and a castle.

It sounds like your town council could do more to police and maintain the town centre. A zero tolerance approach might help. But some towns where the main employer/industry has disappeared are so strapped for cash they have higher priorities.

A culture of community volunteering helps too . Parish councils and pushy residents' associations tend to get things done.

Our city is like this. Alcohol and heroin. A few years ago it was spice. Many people mistake them for being homeless but they actually aren’t.

Are you usually so cheerful ? 😁

You've been dying to get there, haven't you OP. I'm amazed it's taken this long.

Eh?

@Meadowfinch now that’s one reason I think here in Bath has remained ‘relatively ok’ - we do not have big out of town retail parks and our cinemas ( several) theatres and restaurants have remained central so trade is directed centrally .