Is our town a shithole..

[FroggletTowers]

Or is this happening anywhere else?

I have been discussing this with friends, family and colleagues recently so won't name our town for privacy reasons, but it is a regular, large town in England, UK.
Nothing particularly special or awful about it, previously.

Since the pandemic, the entire vibe has changed. Almost unrecognisable.
Yes, we have some heavy shop closures like many towns, but the council kept it looking decent as much as it could. Some nice buildings and nature areas, etc.

What stands out most, apart from the general vandalism and dog shit is the weird accumulation of male groups hanging around boozing in public.

So far they have taken over the local park, river walks and nature reserves. They often cluster beneath bridges or across paths where people like to run, cycle walk dogs or take children, making it less safe and filling these areas with waste. Off road bikes have ruined the nature reserves, so less people visit

Sadly the authorities don't seem to be doing much about it, it is as if these people don't have to abide by laws that the rest of us have to. Some buildings adjacent to these areas have windows put through on a regular basis, even in what you'd call 'nice' areas.
Many of them cluster at river bridges and block the path for others, most are very drunk or out of generally.
It isn't unusual to see a large man passed out across the pathway, blocking anyone getting past. If you had a pram or bike it would be really uncomfortable to have to rouse a large drunk at 2pm in the afternoon. Most are local men, with a growing amount of middle eastern men. The vast majority of them are unstable.

We see less women out cycling, walking or exercising now, and this encompasses both MC and WC areas. These people seem to have just multiplied and spread across the entire borough and have taken over all public space.
We live in a decent area that is now seeming to go downhill.
It isn't unusual to see day drinkers sat alone, surrounded by cans on a quiet residential street. And they won't move to let you past.

It's really depressing.

Completely agree. It’s not going to get any better.

@Dappy777 completely agree but no one can say the obvious

No one can say anything freely anymore because political correctness has laid waste to honest conversation. Everyone feels offended. It’s bullshit.

I was raised as one of five by a single mother on benefits. I’m now a higher rate taxpayer (by a significant margin) and an active member of my community. All of my siblings are employed, educated and have never been in any trouble with the authorities.

My mother was groomed by predatory older men when she was very young and had no-one to look out for her. She did her best with what she had. It’s easy to make sweeping generalisations about certain groups instead of approaching things in a nuanced way. I’m not saying difficult conversations don’t need to be had, but come on now.

Im 38 next week, born and bred at kingmill and had 3 kids born there too. We avoid both sutton and mansfield town centres tbh unless needed. We live near kingsmill so thankfully kinda out of town and weve managed to do ok for ourselves but only because hubby has got a decent job engineering based like his dad. I came from good old carsic 😅🙈 but have worked all my life from as soon as i could get a paper round 😆

We started work earlier back in the day! I was cleaning, helping in an egg shop and occasionally babysitting at a local farm at 12 years old. When I’d finished babysitting and it was dark, my dog used to come and meet me to walk me home. (Irrelevant to the thread, I know).

Unfortunately as the oldest of 5 i spent time babysitting my siblings without pay 😆. All my family live around here except one sibling so i could never see myself moving. What made you move to Bath. Or Barth 😊

This thread heading made me think OP was maybe from here too 😆.

Ahh, so you were a slave!! 😁. I haven’t moved to Barth! Are you mixing me up with another poster?

Ohhh thought you said you moved away to bath lol, must have been someone else.

So you still live locally then i guess. Funny how theres always somone local in pretty much every chat ive interacted with. Tbh not been on here in a long time, the headline of this post caught my eye 😅. Lets hope the work on the town centre at least makes it look more appealing 🤞😅. Its no longer a community feel. Bring back the pool on sutton lawn and have proper security for that and the cafe and park and people would come together more. A friendly inclusive community feel makes people less likely to be bad. Im ever the optomist 😆

Yes, no-one is allowed to say the thing YOU ARE FREELY DISCUSSING ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD.

And families aren't discouraged from having more children WHEN THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT INTRODUCED A TWO-CHILD LIMIT ON BENEFITS AND THIS GOVERNMENT HASN'T OVERTURNED IT.

Even if we agree that there are gazillions of feckless parents sponging off the state, you have to answer this question:

Why should we punish their children?

I have absolutely no idea why you’re speaking about this to me but you appear to have a great big fucking gob that you can’t control love. Do you shout at people on the street or is it just behind the screen?

No, but they seem to be in some kind of paralysis regarding the issues. Incompetence perhaps? Laziness? Stupidity? No forward planning or thinking? Putting their own interests first? Greed? Who knows, but they have been outwitted that's for sure.

And councils are not addressing the money laundering shops otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them! The public knows what's going on and the reason for them (organised crime), yet still they persist. Why?

Wondering if it’s Exeter because I know people there and this is exactly what they are describing. It’s made worse by drug and alcohol services being placed in the main shopping areas.

op I really sympathise because that sounds grim

Give us an example of something you used to be able to say, that you can't say any more.

Made me chuckle putting organised crime in brackets after saying we know the reason for them. Yes we do. You are right. Why.

Is that an order?

Local councils have had their funding cut in real terms by as much as 20% since 2010, at a time when there's been increase in statutory spending because of our ageing population. This means they've had to cut spending on social care and social services.

Then in 2013, government handed over responsibility for funding addiction services to local authorities, while they were struggling to deal with massive funding cuts and the ongoing housing crisis caused in part by the sell off of council housing.

It's been absolutely ruinous to communities, to families and to the NHS.

2018: "Drug and alcohol services cut by £162m as deaths increase"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44039996

2023: "Funding cuts mean addicts left to fight disease alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/vomiting-blood-and-shaking-uncontrollably-funding-cuts-leave-addicts-left-to-fight-disease-alone-12928915#:~:text=Funding%20for%20addiction%20treatment%20services,waiting%2010%20years%20for%20help.

2021: "Thousands of young people missing out on drug and alcohol treatment as budgets cut by over a third"

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/news-and-features/latest-news/detail/2021/03/28/thousands-of-young-people-missing-out-on-drug-and-alcohol-treatment-as-budgets-cut-by-over-a-third

I agree with what you say (I was writing about a different subject) and I loved your post because most of my childhood was spent in some pretty bleak areas, and I recognise what you say. I was referring to people who are sufficiently literate and self aware, including the professions. There is a huge lack of awareness and teaching it more widely including in schools (along with emotional intelligence) would make a huge difference. On MN threads you will often get a majority saying "punishment and consequnces" etc and a tiny minority saying that research doesn't support that as just one example, all of them fairly assertive and reasonably literate! So a slightly different issue.

But going back to what you say, about average reading age is 9 - are you referring to actual studies about this? I was looking at the government report in relation to changing the curriculum recently and it said that at the end of primary 40 percent of children do not meet the required standard in literacy and at the end of GCSEs 40 percent again do not meet the required standard in literacy or maths and in fact 16 percent of that age do not meeting the required standard applying to 11 year olds. I am not sure how accurate this is, but it is unacceptable.

What demographics apply to the communties you refer to, and what percentage of the community - is this the 40 percent?

And when you say the parents don't see the value of education, do you mean they don't engage with you at all and don't encourage their dc to do homework? Or they say learning to read and write is a waste of time?

Interesting. Thanks for that.

I am guilty of going into our city centre and thinking my God. But then I try and look at the good things.
We gave a beautiful cathedral and the shopping centre has been bought and the new owners are really trying.
I feel we have a lot of homeless people more than ever and they can be quite rowdy I've often seen a group of them kicking off over drugs and what ones done to another I assume they go to a hostel. I have thought sometimes it's like Elizabethan times with the nursery rhyme
Hark hark the dogs do bark the beggars are coming to town....
But it's drugs and alcohol. And I wonder why nothing ever gets done about drugs.
I used a lot of local amenities because I home ed. I see a lot of people trying very hard with little money to throw at things. Lots of libraries doing there best. Parks looking beautiful if you go in them.
It's a bit similar to the late 90s when everywhere was a shit hole after the cuts in the 80s . A lot of things seemed to improve with lottery money getting thrown at things back then. A lot of people pick up litter now and seem to plant local flower beds up making little neighbourhoods in bloom.
We have a lot of parks which are very accessible. I haven't seen any of the groups of men drinking OP describes. I see a lot of young people not in school mooching in the park. Smell a lot of weed everywhere.
I live about 200metres from a hotel used to house refugees and everyone is always blaming everything on them. But I haven't noticed a problem. It makes me smile when a group of them come walking back from our local cricket pitch cos I know everyone around will be spitting feathers at the bloody audacity of them. I've noticed them with a lot of sports direct bags so Mike Ashley is making plenty on the back of it.
Our canal is beautiful to walk along.
I think if we start thinking our towns are a shit hole then there is no hope.

Thank you for this, will do. Does your dh think that academic standards have changed?

Academic standards across the Russell Group are extremely rigorous. Subject choice will matter a lot though.

I think that the suggestion (not by the other poster, but I have seen this elsewhere) has been that a dominance of diversity and inclusion policies have affected how students are selected. The theme is the same as for other areas - obviously diversity and inclusion is good provided that the same standards apply to everyone, and that in relation to universities rigorous academic standards remain. But just as in some areas we are seeing that a badly apply DEI policy means that people are no longer being selected on merit, or just on merit, and some suggest that this is also the case in relation to RG universities - which means that the rigourous academic standards are therefore in fact going to be affected. What do you think?

@Slatterndisgrace

It's a request.

What do you want to say that you can't say?

I live in a big standard London borough. Not the wealthiest and not the poorest. Approx 20 mins to the centre. It’s nothing like this. No drunks or homeless people. a few chains but lots of (non-glam) independent cafes and small shops.

Council pretty good. Weekly bin collections. Trees well-maintained. Wonder if that makes a difference. The usual London diversity here is from established families rather than new groups of men being bussed in.

These stories are horrific and depressing. It’s about the bigger system but also us as individuals. Why is it ok to watch loud videos in hospitals and on the tube without headphones? Why don’t people pick up litter? How can we have gone so wrong?