Is our town a shithole..

[FroggletTowers]

Or is this happening anywhere else?

I have been discussing this with friends, family and colleagues recently so won't name our town for privacy reasons, but it is a regular, large town in England, UK.
Nothing particularly special or awful about it, previously.

Since the pandemic, the entire vibe has changed. Almost unrecognisable.
Yes, we have some heavy shop closures like many towns, but the council kept it looking decent as much as it could. Some nice buildings and nature areas, etc.

What stands out most, apart from the general vandalism and dog shit is the weird accumulation of male groups hanging around boozing in public.

So far they have taken over the local park, river walks and nature reserves. They often cluster beneath bridges or across paths where people like to run, cycle walk dogs or take children, making it less safe and filling these areas with waste. Off road bikes have ruined the nature reserves, so less people visit

Sadly the authorities don't seem to be doing much about it, it is as if these people don't have to abide by laws that the rest of us have to. Some buildings adjacent to these areas have windows put through on a regular basis, even in what you'd call 'nice' areas.
Many of them cluster at river bridges and block the path for others, most are very drunk or out of generally.
It isn't unusual to see a large man passed out across the pathway, blocking anyone getting past. If you had a pram or bike it would be really uncomfortable to have to rouse a large drunk at 2pm in the afternoon. Most are local men, with a growing amount of middle eastern men. The vast majority of them are unstable.

We see less women out cycling, walking or exercising now, and this encompasses both MC and WC areas. These people seem to have just multiplied and spread across the entire borough and have taken over all public space.
We live in a decent area that is now seeming to go downhill.
It isn't unusual to see day drinkers sat alone, surrounded by cans on a quiet residential street. And they won't move to let you past.

It's really depressing.

Our town centre is absolutely grim, I avoid it at all costs. This is a large town around 40 miles from London. Lots of people begging, drunk or on drugs or a combination of these.

Like what?

I think there’s also a liberal attitude of anything goes and if you say anything you’re seen as judgemental or a snob. If your kid has a classified disability eg autism the two child cap doesn’t affect you hence one woman I know 5 kids all on autism pathway all home edded with ponies

Totally correct about Derby. Recently there was a fatal stabbing in a bank. No idea how many other stabbings there have been in the past month in Derby and surrounding small towns which struggle even more.
Two listed buildings have had major arson attacks in the past month too.
This year has also had a flurry of assaults (often sexual) in parks and green recreational spaces.

It's got a decent shopping centre so people with money to spend park up on site (not that there's many other council car parks left) and never leave the building. The "High Street" is a gauntlet of druggies/ street drinkers, and mainly occupied by the types of businesses associated with money laundering. There are a few independent/ boutique streets, but it's not well joined up in terms of shopping experience.

A few weeks ago I had time to kill in town and did a cafe crawl with a book. To be fair, there are a good number of lovely independent/ small business cafes. Cafe one, overlooked a vape shop, taped off with a police van outside... In cafe two (licenced) a totally inebriated lout was trying to get served but was being refused service. He then came on to me. Reason was clearly not going to cut through the drugs and alcohol, so I grey rocked him but it still took a couple of minutes to register that I was not going to be overcome by lust. At least when he said "I'm a sexual being" it reminded me to do my pelvic floor exercises for the day He did finally stagger off to be refused service at any other establishment along the street.

The worst of the drunks and druggies are home-grown. They're best swerved because too many are verbally aggressive. Although swerving too obviously can still get you a torrent of foul mouthed abuse.

The difficulty with recent migrants without work visas is that they are heavily biased to young men. For reasons of personal safety, I am cagey about loitering, aimless groups of young men regardless of their origins.

Who the people are matters in terms of why they're hanging around and how agencies can support them. Working with someone whose issues are around visas, language and qualification conversion is different to supporting someone with addiction, mental health issues, trauma and poor education standards- often intergenerational to the point of being a localised sub-culture. There is a lot of charitable community work to support people struggling on the fringes of society, but that has also pulled other transient people in and increased the numbers.

At least the era of the Spice Zombies passed by several years ago. That was when the DCs were young. Guiding them down the street past erratic people drooping around like extras from Shaun of the Dead was not high on the list of desirable childhood experiences.

The police clamp down, the problems shuffle to the outskirts and then creep back over time. The DCs have seen people being arrested a few times. They've also been shopping when a shoplifter grabbed an armful of stock off the rails and bolted. The poor manager was incensed and ranting about the response rate from the centre's security.

I recently visted another town that I haven't been to in 15+ years, and haven't known well for about 30 years. It was fairly mediocre then. It's scrubbed up well and the worst of the 1960s remedied. I realised after a while what was odd... it felt nice. There wasn't an undercurrent of despair. People had purpose. People even shopped. Few delivery bikes charging around. No drunks/ druggies. I didn't feel hyper alert, it was pleasant, relaxed. It made me realise how normal it feels to be on high alert for anti-social/ criminal behaviour I normally am and felt odd to not be in that mode.

There's a lot to like in Derby. There are positive projects moving forwards despite a continuing need for redevelopment of other zones which tend to stall for years. But the anti-social behaviour of a not-small minority makes the city centre (and some inner suburbs) a stressful place to go about your business.

And these problems are common across swathes of the midlands, north and de-industrialised small towns.

Derby does have money and a strong engineering sector, but it's quite polarised between well-paid specialist work and deprived areas with a long history of poor education outcomes and poor health. There are large swathes of former pit towns of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire that have really struggled economically and socially since the coal pit closures and de-industrialisation over the past 40 years.

That relies on people being sufficiently literate to understand them and enough self-awareness to realise that they need them.

The average reading age is 9. That's the pitch of newspapers like The Sun and The Mirror.

The people in greatest need tend to be below that literacy level. They may well have undiagnosed or poorly managed learning difficulties. They may have had chaotic family lives affecting their attendance and performance at school.
They are often suspicious of authority and find it difficult to trust others for help in settings like libraries, children's centres and health clinics.

They are very tricky to engage with and assist.
Sure Start was great and really helpful; I wish it would be revived. But it still often struggled to engage with those in deepest need particularly on a voluntary basis.

I've taught in some very deprived neighbourhoods and there is a significant proportion of parents who struggled with education (sometimes traumatically) and don't see any long term benefits of it beyond keeping the children out of the house for a while. It's very difficult to get past those mental walls and show people potential opportunities that they don't believe in, and that makes it harder to engage with the next generation... and the cycle continues.

Crickey almighty i am in the East midlands, sounds like you were describing my town 😅. It has just been taken by Reform too.

@Liss19 are you in Sutton in Ashfield ? I was describing Mansfield - originally my home town till I was 29 - my goodness what a bloody depressing area- it’s not just the town - it’s the general attitude - feel bloody sorry for anyone not of the same mentality stuck in the area

I know that compared to many I have a charmed life. But actually, while I pay significantly more then most into societal network funds via taxation, the world just gets even grimmer. I'm not going to vote Reform, because Nigel Farage is a charlatan, but I'm not ripping up the carpet for anyone else. The current government are out of their depth. The LibDems have got not enough numbers to make change.

👀 I am 40 miles from London too

I feel the same. Green Party? 🤷‍♀️
tbh I think I want to emigrate

What is making it worse is the never ending arrival of extra people.

it is unsustainable

Honestly, I would (and could) emigrate. Nearly 70 and good at languages but DH's very significant health concerns make it impossible. I am quick with romance languages but trying to translate 20 years of cardiac history and medical subtlety is way beyond what I want.

How do you think the rivers get to the sea?

@MasterBeth do please look at a map! There are thousands of towns with rivers running through them, and many end up at the coast or on an estuary.

Please, please, please don't listen to the reactionary racist bilge spouted below the line on the Nottinghamshire Live website. I've lived in Nottingham for nearly 30 years, brought up kids here and still love living here.

The city centre has certainly changed recently - less retail, more restaurants - but it's a great place to be as a student.

Try student Room website. You get lots of information from the students. You can also search for past threads.

"The Student Room" www.thestudentroom.co.uk?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22536509681&gbraid=0AAAAADCSka6X-0uNKc-30K-MHGtDEdr41&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmK_CBhCEARIsAMKwcD7u9mZ_zLqQN2i_dUsJRAnH-S34dR-FTInwbs6y5SE2INUEJry6kE4aAuOUEALw_wcB

I don't know, it just feels very off. It's simply not normal for successive governments to run a country into the ground as much as this. Take the money laundering places. Everyone knows about them yet councils do absolutely nothing. It's bizarre.

I also believe that hostile countries are sponsoring people to come across here on the boats. Russia? China? Who knows? Deliberately undermining the country and costing us millions though. Who might benefit from that?

Perhaps you could use a summary site, rather than one in which you have to open multiple links.

Farage's voting records across the last 5 years have been disgusting.

It's not a recent development.

@Crikeyalmighty omg how did you know!?!? Yeah good old S in A 🙈

How Putin is fomenting Europe’s migrant crisis | The Spectator https://share.google/fWO7hits67e8mujC2

Just a cover up for money laundering.

Er, yes. That was exactly my point.

So you think every single high-ranking politician and MP in four political parties over multiple decades are all party to a secret plan to run the country into the ground while also partnering with other countries to find fake asylum seekers to take perilous boat trips?

Also, councils don’t investigate and prosecute crime.

@Liss19 because it’s the only place round there with a Reform MP!! Bit of a give away - I’m accurate though aren’t I - full of blokes with a huge chip on their shoulder and their gangsters molls who go along with their ignorant racist shit as they need 2 incomes to get by . Jealous as hell of anyone doing ok - it was never like this when I was a teen - problem is all the mines closed and with them went the quite well paying working class jobs and it all became a bit dog eat dog - I’m a kings mill born girl and my 2 oldest sons were born there ( in their 40s now)

I'm guessing you are in the North Island? You need to join the growing throngs apparently moving down south (oh, no, on second thoughts don't!!!).