To be upset with SEN school about today’s trip?

[Aholicor]

Hi, posting here for traffic and just want to know if I’m being unfair. Bit long, sorry.

DS is 7, end of Aug born so very young for yr3. He’s in a SEN school, has ASD, ADHD, SPD, and poss learning disability (still going through assessments). Has an EHCP. Functioning more around reception level, still in pull-ups, and has zero awareness of when he needs changing. Won’t tell anyone, hates being changed, full meltdown mode if it happens anywhere unfamiliar. We’re working on it but it’s slow progress.

He’s on Laxido atm which makes him go loads, like 3-5 times a day sometimes. We’ve explained this to school loads of times and it’s all in his care plan. He normally has 2:1 staffing which is what he had today.

So today was a trip to a farm. Was meant to be a nice day out, he’d been talking about it for ages. Turns out he had a big accident not long after they got there. Staff tried to get him changed but he kicked off hard (not surprised – he gets really distressed). He did eventually calm down and they got him cleaned up. But then instead of letting him rejoin the group, they took him straight to the minibus and made him sit there with a TA until everyone else finished the trip.

He missed the animals, missed the picnic, just sat on the bus for over an hour. When I asked why, they said it was “for his own wellbeing” and they “didn’t want to risk another upset.” I get it’s hard for them but it just feels like they gave up on him today.

This isn’t the first time something like this has happened either. They’ve excluded him from loads recently – sports day, after-school clubs, even some group sessions. I’m really starting to feel like they don’t know how to support him properly anymore. They’ve said themselves they’re struggling.

I just don’t know what to do. I’m heartbroken for him – he came home so flat. I know trips are hard but he’s only 7 and he needs support, not isolation.

AIBU to feel like they handled this really badly? Or am I expecting too much?

I'm so sorry this happened. They definately did handle it really badly. It sounds to me like they gave up on him because they really don't know how to keep him safe? How have they been trained to handle him when he kicks off? Can the people that support him actually handle him in the right way when he kicks off? Could it be that they just think if they can't trust him to listen to them, they have no way of stopping him do anything if they need to? I guess what I'm saying is do they believe he deserves punishment for his "bad behaviour", or do they fear not being able to keep him safe?

Sounds bloody awful considering he regulated himself there’s no reason to keep him in the bus. Staff he’d to look at his care plan/behaviour support plan. I’d call and speak to Head then there can be an investigation

It does like an odd decision, considering he'd calmed down. Is there a petting zoo nearby you could take him to? He must be very sad to have missed the animals.

As a side, is he on a de-impaction regime? If not, I'd be querying whether the laxido could be reduced so he isn't opening his bowels up to 5x a day!

Nope. He had less favourable treatment by reason of his disability. That's not on.

I would go in to speak to the head teacher talking about Equality Act. I would be talking about taking it to the governors too.

Here's the advice for school governors
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sen-and-disability-duties-guidance-for-school-governing-boards

I suppose it depends on what "kicked off hard" means. Seems quite likely it would happen again later in the day and they wanted to avoid that, or at least be in a more controlled environment.

This, was this a 'kicked off hard' that couldn't safely be managed by 2:1.
What happens when he kicks off hard?

He’s 2:1 so particularly high needs and may need 3:1 to remain safe? His staff will be making minute by minute judgments on what is safe in light of heightened behaviours and his care plan/risk assessment. I worked 2:1 with a pupil and despite being competent, we couldn’t take her some places in order to safeguard her, other pupils, staff, animals, and the general public. There are other variables which might impact staff decisions too, the pupils mood, how new staff are, experienced staff’s resilience levels (they may have been physically hurt earlier) , the degree of danger, group dynamics if they are a trigger. Hopefully your child’s school is making decisions which balance risk and safety. As a parent you’re incredibly knowledgeable about your own children and strategies, so it might be helpful to share information about your own strategies. Failing that, if the school isn’t meeting his needs, it might be worth looking at other provisions

Would you be able to take him alone to a farm? If he’s on 2:1 at a school where he can’t run off and they know the risks, it’s must be really hard. The adults can’t just grab the child if he’s running off like a parent can in case it hurts them, and they have to think about the other children and situation they can’t judge it like a parent can but they have to keep that child safe. If a 7 runs, not many adults can catch them or pick them up they’re not babies anymore, it’s hard

it’s a shame your little fellow missed out. Could you take him?
with him requiring changing multiple times a day, I’m not sure he should have gone on the trip.

Are you sure that he has 2:1 staffing all day, as in 2 adults assigned to him alone? That's incredibly rare and would usually be for a child who is a significant danger to themselves or others (complex medical/extreme behaviour). I wonder if 2:1 is only to support changing? Or is it 1:2, as in one adult for every two children?

The reason I ask is that it does sound as if they struggled to meet needs on this day. How are they normally? Are his needs met? Do they understand him?

Then the other element to this is that you should ask him if he stayed on the bus as a punishment for his behaviour - in which case, ask if this was in line with their behaviour policy and ask to see it. Or did he stay on the bus for safety - in which case, ask to be involved in a risk assessment for day to day and also specifically before any future trips.

Is he at an SEMH school or a generic special school? Is it a school set up to manage challenging behaviour?

It’s hard to judge. If they were worried about it happening again and not being able to keep him safe what did you want them to do? Had they been hurt when he kicked off hard and therefore had a reduced capacity to cope?

Or, was it a consequence which isn’t acceptable?

I think you are asking too much of people. I cannot imagine ever taking a child on a trip who was on laxatives and had massive melt downs when getting changed in unfamiliar places. Could he have avoided the medication for one day if he gets so upset by this kind of thing happening? Surely taking the medication in combination with the trip wasn’t really meeting his needs.

If you complain that he is getting less favourable treatment then the school will have two options: not run trips for anyone or ask their staff to do something that they don’t feel comfortable with.

If he is having melt downs on sports days and clubs etc. then he probably isn’t ready for them. Why do you want him to take part in these things if the reality makes him stressed and unhappy?

If you think he has missed out, could you take him on a farm trip yourself?

Although not acceptable, it does sound that they were doing a dynamic risk assessment and might have done it to try and keep him/ the staff safe. Did you have a meeting about the trip before he went? As you know that changing casues him distress in unfamiliar places, was anything talked about how to support this considering it was very likely that he would go while on the trip. I would have a chat with headteacher and ask why this was the action taken.

This is the part that needs expanding. The fact he's in a SEN setting, with 2:1 support and they are despite their experience finding his behaviour hard to manage suggests his needs are not currently being met. It doesn't suggest they are just giving up, I'm sure the staff would much rather have continued the trip but put his needs first.

If he cannot manage being changed in unfamiliar places then I think taking him wasn't actually in his best interests to be honest and going to the bus was possibly the safest solution for him at that time.

The fact this is becoming more of an issue, with sports day and after school club suggests he needs a review, as his current plan isn't working.

You don't think you'd take a child with high needs like this out of you were their parent?

Not if they were on laxatives and got distressed when getting changed in unfamiliar places. I would be less ambitious and take them to local familiar places where we could go home to get changed without having to wait for a group of people to come back with us.

I think you'll find that's almost definitely not what you'd be doing after 7 yrs of going to the same 3 local destinations. You'd be trying to give your child experiences and education and work around their needs. You think you wouldn't want that for your child because it's hard work? You underestimate mother's.

I don’t underestimate mothers. They love their children and are willing to do totally unreasonable things for them including sacrificing their own health and happiness.

I would certainly never complain to a mother if she attempted a challenging trip and had to bail because it was too hard. That would be really mean.

It’s unacceptable there should have been a risk assessment and no way is sit him on a bus a suitable management plan. I would complain.

I think it’s worth speaking to the school again about this. As a PP has said, you need clarification on why he was in the bus for that hour. If it was as a punishment or because they weren’t adequately staffed then you should definitely be unhappy about it. However, it could also be because he was overwhelmed or still acting out, if so it wouldn’t be safe for him to be around the animals.

I agree.

The Safety of your DC, staff and the farm are paramount here so I think that without understanding the nuances it’s impossible to say if you’re being unreasonable.

Regardless of whether anyone’s being unreasonable, it sounds like things went Pete Tong on the trip and the response wasn’t what you’d hope for (reintegration into the trip experience).

Even with the best training in the world, and a high ratio of adults to child, things can go wrong. However, in response to a likely severe meltdown, your son was helped to settle and was kept safe from harm. This would’ve been the priority for staff.

Communication key. There will be plenty more trips and everyone will have learned from this. I recommend you have a conversation with the school about what can be done to support your son to have a better trip experience.

Re the medication - is there a need for further conversation with medical professionals? If pull up changes are distressing, defecating 3 to 5 times a school day seems a lot?

He's 7. He wasn't going in the enclosures.

@Aholicor it sounds like an adjustment need to be made to the laxido & is he on an impaction routine??

IF he's 2:1 all day (not just for changing) I can't see how 2 adults couldn't have managed the time seeing some animals rather than sitting on the bus?

Uou definitely need more information.

poor DS I hope you are able to take him somewhere nice at the weekend. Xx

I’d imagine both him and the staff need a rest after he’s kicked off hard. I don’t think missing an hour is bad for them to rest and calm down, but if he’d been kept for a lot longer than necessary then it would be bad.