To think new childcare costs screw women?

[idontknow54789]

Before getting pregnant with DC2 day rates at nurseries around here were £70-80 a day. Now DC2 is here they’ve gone up to £120 a day! My DH earns over £100k so we don’t get free childcare. It’s now looking like it’s not worth me going back to work - it’s going to cost us for me to work. I know we’re fortunate that he has a decent salary (this is London though so doesn’t go far). All nurseries are saying it’s the lack of funding for the ‘free’ hours that are forcing them to put up costs so much in a year. So the lower earner (I know not always women but often are for many many reasons) gets screwed and it disincentives them to work. I feel so deflated over this. I’ve got my hard hat on here as I know a lot will say how privileged we are he earns that but this is more of a rant about my personal situation and career and others in my position.

How much over 100k is your partner? As others have suggested maybe him dropping to part time would enable you to access some of the free childcare. I do think it should be looked at by area too. I live in the South East too and i’d say 100k salary wouldn’t go that far, whereas my mum who has lived in a northern town all her life would think it is loads. It isn’t when housing is as expensive as it is in the South East. If your DP dropped at least 1 day, and you also drop 1 day then it is more manageable to pay for 3 days. When considering giving up your career, consider the pension too, and what happens if you split. I’d never give up my career as it would put me in a vulnerable position.

My younger two are 20 and 17 now and I still meet up with the mum friends I made at nursery. One with 2 DC 18 months apart took out a 10yr loan to help. Another had twins and had to wait until they were 15 to move to a bigger place. But they all got there eventually. It’s a short time in the scheme of things, so keep hold of your job.

It's been like that for a long time. I paid £750 a month to a childminder (8.30-6pm) fifteen years ago.

It's still worth doing though, for pension contributions, continuity of work, career progression, currency of skills etc.

It's three years during which you have to grit your teeth and pay it. You share the cost proportionately with your dp.

It all feels impossible, doesn’t it…I’m in the states so it’s different here because ours don’t start public (free) school until age 5, and you have to have quite a low income to get any help for childcare costs.

I’m an elected official in my city and we need more childcare desperately, and we’re working on it, but how do you make it affordable AND quality?

What about an au pair or you going back part time so that nursery fees will be cheaper. I wouldn't leave my job unless you will easily be able to get another one at the same level in a few years time

You need to keep working even if you lose money in the short term. It's not all the fault of men that women don't seek qualifications etc to become higher earners. So what can you do to improve your income? And will your DH support you to do it?

You're thinking of it as it coming from your salary only though. The childcare costs should come from both your salaries in proportion. Don't give up work!

Don't give up work!
Can DH put more into a pension? Or drop a day? Whichever gets him under 100k. It's for a few years, but getting back into many jobs after a few years out is a tough gig.

But how insane is the system that people are better of by dropping a days work or not taking home some of their pay

I'd think about the long term such as earning potential, pension etc it might actually be worth it to take a hit now as it will be beneficial in the future.

I have already vowed to my girls (currently 3 and 1) that if I’m in the position when/if they have kids, I will look after the kids so they can work. Can’t imagine what it’ll be like in 25/30 years from now…

Your husband earns £100k so of course you shouldn’t be eligible for funded hours. Our household income is £60k before all the tax etc. You must live in a very expensive area because nurseries are a lot less than £100 where I live, and I appreciate the funded hours because I wouldn’t have been able to return to work.

You should be looking at it as a family expense. Continuing to work is an investment in your future as an individual and as a family.

Are there actual jobs that pay 100k plus that work on the basis of set hours/days…?

Of course there are. I work in an office job earning quite a bit more than this doing 4/week.

Unless your husband’s taxable income is a lot over £100k (in which case you really don’t need the funded hours), just put more into his pension for a bit. You’ll get the funding & tax free childcare, you’ll get bigger pension pots, you’ll get two incomes - it’s win/win.

I agree that the £100k cut off isn’t particularly well thought through in terms of the cliff edge. But if works in your favour as well - he only needs to be a pound under and you get all the funding.

What about an au pair

Au pairs are for "light" childcare help, they are only really intended for (eg) wraparound care for older kids. You are not supposed to use them for sole charge of babies. They are also very hard to find now post brexit. The au pair scheme also is really awful, its heavily abused by people overusing au pairs & paying them a pittance.

It’s crazy. I was a childcare provider until 2014 and I charged £35 per day. I paid £38 a day for nursery between 2016-2019 . Those rates are unreal.

This type of attitude is the problem. Yes, 100k is a good salary but as demonstrated by others on the thread it doesn’t go far with exorbitant childcare and housing costs. We absolutely should think differently because

• funding Childcare has a net positive benefit financially (tax receipts)
• it reduces inequality

As an aside - unless your husband earns over c150k you would be better off paying the money into his pension and taking the hours. That’s what I do!! If you look at the stats there is a huge number of earners earning £99,999….crazy but that the system.

I don’t think YABU that the free hours has possibly made things worse for those outside the scheme but it is a godsend for those on a lower income, which was sort of the point.

Could you and your DH go part time for a few years to bring his salary below the threshold?

With regard to your work you need to (a) only account for 50% of the fees from your salary as that’s your “share”, and (b) look at this over the lifetime of your career, not just the next 5 years. You absolutely will be better off long term staying in work because it’s not that long before nursery fees fall, your salary should grow and you’ve got to think about pension, NI contributions etc. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking you can take a decade out and walk back into a rewarding, well paid job as it is incredibly difficult especially at the moment.

Plus what would you do if your DH had an affair, left, started behaving like a twat, or just became ill? Do you want to be stuck, financially? Plus most sick pay packages don’t last long.

I was in your position and did part time/ compressed for over a decade to save on childcare fees. Looking at friends who were SAHMs I’m so glad I did.

It’s possible to reduce housing costs by buying a smaller house or a house in a lower cost area. I’ve seen some crazy mortgage payments on MN where it’s more than what I earn per month (gross pay). I think the threshold should be lower, maybe £90k plus shouldn’t be entitled to the full 15 or 30 free hours.

Yes, our nursery has just put rates up to cope with the funding. DS on four days a week has gone from c £700-800 a month to more than £1k. We do get funded hours and TFC though.

Can your DH stick more in his pension to bring him under £100k so you can access the funding?

How much time do you have left at nursery? Could a loan get you through? Because on balance, the pension contributions and career progression are probably worth more than the savings from not having childcare. And flexing and reducing hours a bit – we shave a chunk off our bill by switching from the convenient but expensive 8-6 full day, which gives us flexibility around the school drop-off and life, to being military and regimented with set hours. It helps if you and DH can work opposite hours – one starts and finishes early, the other late, for instance.

She's in London, so of course childcare is expensive.

The real answer would be to stop with these income cliffs and do phased subsidies that fade with income, but whenever that sort of thing gets proposed, it gets rejected as unwieldy and hard to administer. But the current system penalises women who have well paid husbands. It's all well and good to say "household income" but it's largely women who take the brunt of it in practice.

We have gone through multiple rate increases at our private nursery over the past 3 years (going from 90 to 105 a day), and according to the nursery all of them where due to energy costs, inflation, and increase in staff costs after the raise of NIC and minimum wage. So the new funding doesn't seem to have had any impact, it just increased the waiting list.

You should look for other childminders in your areas, 11/h is super high for one child.
Look at council nurseries as well, they are cheaper (although often term time only) and can be really good in my experience.

But your best option is for your husband to lower his salary to get under 100k, and the most efficient way is for him go 80% which also reduces childcare needs to 4 days. Or to put more on pension if he is just a little over the threshold.

Why? Do you want less women (all the stats show it would be women) return to work after maternity leave?
Do you not want to see the pay gap reduce, more women in the ‘top jobs’ in the workplace, better representation, less women stuck in abusive or coercive relationships and more choice for all?
Sounds wonderful 👍

Living exactly the same life as you - same figures and in debt. So stressed!

I think that’s reasonable. Minimum wage is about £12 an hour, and according to what I’ve been told then can only look after 3 kids under the age of 5 at once. Once you take business expenses and tax off that £36 an hour, it’s not extravagant.

I do think the cost of childcare is what’s keeping women out of work now, and it’s very different to when my mum could afford to stay at home until her youngest was 6, and they ran the house/mortgage/bills on one wage. These days it’s really hard to run a home with kids without two wages, and London is bloody crazy prices. I’m sorry OP. It must be massively frustrating to feel forced to not work because it works out less expensive.