To think the school system is ridiculous

[Suflan]

This post is talking about the school system in the republic of Ireland, but I know that the school system in the UK has some similiatites, so this is also relevant to people in the UK.

I went to school in Ireland a long time ago, 20 years ago.

My younger cousins are just sitting their school leaving certificate (irish equivalent to a levels) this year and they and their friends have been posting about the exams, after it happened, on social media.

I was just thinking what they learn and do exams on is such a load of shite. Like how is it relevant or necessary in todays world at all.

They posted about their maths paper, all the quadratic equations, prove that point 5,1 is on the line etc etc, extremely complicated equations, and algebra.

Like what do you need that for in life? Its so totally pointless. And maths is mandatory to do, so they need points from maths to get into University.

Like what is the point of learning these things. Surely they should be learning something useful. My cousins have said to me that they think that a lot of what they learn is totally pointless too

caitlinclock.com/2017/09/17/miss-when-will-i-ever-use-algebra/

Totally agree. Being able to analyse a text for meaning and be familiar enough with it to locate relevant quotes, useful skills. Memorising said quotes, pointless skill. All English exams should be open book.

Similarly, using a bilingual dictionary is a skill anyone speaking a second language needs. I've been learning French 40 years and don't know every single word. Nobody does. So language exams should allow use of a dictionary. Understanding of how a language works is more important than instant recall of random vocabulary.

Same with history, knowing how to analysing sources is useful. Memorising dates is not useful.

Quantitative Analyst, they use algebra and all manner of complex math in their job. That's just one job I know of.
Just because a child may not want to go into that role, or any role that requires a fairly deep knowledge of math, doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught. The idea of education is to give pupils a wide range of skills and knowledge to enable them to make informed choices for their career or further studies.

We have a functional skills maths GCSE option for pupils who really struggle with traditional maths. It’s focused on everyday mathematical skills like the mental arithmetic you might need in a shop or the use of measurements.

Does nobody need to understand a concrete mix, how to get a right angle, where to put an RSJ? All require an understanding of algebra. If you've ever bought flooring and paint, you've needed algebra to understand how to get the right amount without buying too much or too little. If you've stood in a supermarket and worked out whether it's cheaper to buy large pizzas or small pizzas to feed a bunch of kids, you've used a quadratic equation. Algebra is the language of the universe - it's how you scale up a cake recipe or adjust a recipe's liquid content because you've got dried instead of fresh cherries.

The poster who you were replying to has literally given you an example of a farmer using algebra.

Even the idea of following a set of instructions - the method of performing those calculations - is a lesson in following a set of instructions, rather than cooking the pizza for 35 minutes at 170C and then realising you were supposed to take the plastic off the bottom.

Math teachers, actuaries, statisticians, engineers, financial analysts and probably dozens more.

Yes, something needs to be done in schools about the curriculum but maths is maths is maths it will always be needed.

i feel they should be taught about finance and spending as well as cooking and sewing, Home type things that will be useful. Not bloody Pythagoras Theorem. I only know how to use it now as my DD is doing her GCSEs

People are giving you a very hard time but a lot of people from the irish school system would say they struggled having to study Maths to Leaving Cert standard.

I think the UK system is better if you don’t love Maths because you can drop it after GCSE. I imagine lots of people commenting on this post will know people who only did maths to GCSE level and understand their choice.

I found it difficult having to study Maths at Leaving Cert level and did Pass Maths not Honours. I think it’s generally a positive thing that in Ireland you leave school with a broad education by studying 7 subjects at Leaving Cert. But personally I would have preferred to only do 3 subjects I really liked. It would have been easier for me to do well.

I do agree that much of the curriculum is outdated and we need an overhaul.

But maths is an odd one to pick on. Actually one of the more useful subjects.

Absolutely agree! And have done since I was in high school myself over 20 years ago.Alot of what high schools teach is incredibly outdated and unnecessary.
They should be focusing more on PSHE (specifically healthy relationships, red flags etc as Domestic abuse is rife) budgeting and general money management, careers advice and general life skills needed to run a home and live successfully.
Learning historic dates, algebra, Shakespeare and chemistry won't help most people in the real world.
My theory is they run out of necessary things to teach so start to drill into specifics too much.
They need to make it more 'key skills' based, teaching what many might use in careers not doing niche topics that most won't and if they do need them can learn at degree level.

Many young people don't want to study it.

Many children dont want to go to school at all. Lots of them don't want to eat vegetables. Many young people dont see the point of speed limits and think they know better when they get behind the wheel. We make them do these things and follow rules because we know what's best. Just because people dont want to do something, or think it's pointless doesn't mean they are right. So yes, in many cases, their opinions are invalid.

Yes obviously the maths related careers use maths.

But a lot of other careers don't use a lot of maths

Algebra is probably more widely used these days than in the past.

anyone who programs a computer needs it - so that’s pretty much the whole IT industry.
engineers. Any scientist of any description.

it’s actually probably more used now than it was 50 years ago,

Well it's good you aren't anymore. Think if how many careers you've wasted

Merely befitting the originality of the post.

After all, no one has ever questioned whether all children should learn algebra before…

But why do we think we know what's best for them? Why they don't they have a voice.

I've worked in a couple of schools. (Non teaching role). There were some good teachers, but I definitely saw some teachers who really enjoyed having power over the teenagers.

Just because they are teenagers, doesn't mean thay they should have no say over their own lives.

Even if they don’t do a career in maths and never ever used those complicated equations, personally I still think is an important brain exercise if nothing else, getting those neurons at work.

Why be so nasty to her?

Chefs/cooks/caterers
Bakers
decorators
plumbers
builders
mechanics
carpet fitters
double glazing salespeople
personal trainers
Bra fitters
dressmakers
pilots
astronauts
engineers
racing drivers
taxi drivers

all use maths all the time.

Schools could definitely teach some more practical skills because sadly some parents aren’t passing these on. That might be because the parents don’t have those skills.

Mathematics is very important. I was average at it at school and dropped it at A-Level but I use bits of what I learned every day at work. I lean on colleagues that are better at maths regularly.

Lots of kids like school. I did, but I certainly wasn’t advertising that fact at the time. I’d go back in a heartbeat.

I’m in finance and I use algebra all the time, e.g. to calculate redemption amounts, debt yields etc.

Accountants do use algebra, including for calculating present value of future assets.

It’s used in medicine to calculate dosing. It’s used in all sorts of areas.

@Suflan , you are completely right. I never try to calculate if one item works out cheaper per gram or ml than another. I never work out any percentages. I never budget. I never plan or cost journeys or try to calculate how much wallpaper or paint I need. I never need to use a recipe for four that I need to make enough for 5 people. I never need to work out how many calories in a portion...

School was such a waste of time.

I read an interesting book on how to choose what is on the curriculum.

It divided it into ‘treasures’ and ‘treadmills’. Treasures are things that most agree that well educated people should know, things like Shakespeare, The Periodic Table, our solar system, some language etc.

Treadmills are things to develop your brain. This might include conjugating verbs, quadratic equations, poetic structures etc.

But it’s not an exact science. I rather like quadratic equations, so maybe they are a treasure to me, and treasures change over the years.

But, for those sceptical about what we learn, they should try and design a better curriculum. It’s actually pretty hard!

This. Most people use algebra skills on a fairly regular basis and just don't realise. I really don't get the British obsession with playing down the importance of maths, it's like people are proud to have poor skills. Would those people brag about being unable to understand a simple passage of text or write a few sentences?

Algebra is the most fun part of maths.