To think the school system is ridiculous

[Suflan]

This post is talking about the school system in the republic of Ireland, but I know that the school system in the UK has some similiatites, so this is also relevant to people in the UK.

I went to school in Ireland a long time ago, 20 years ago.

My younger cousins are just sitting their school leaving certificate (irish equivalent to a levels) this year and they and their friends have been posting about the exams, after it happened, on social media.

I was just thinking what they learn and do exams on is such a load of shite. Like how is it relevant or necessary in todays world at all.

They posted about their maths paper, all the quadratic equations, prove that point 5,1 is on the line etc etc, extremely complicated equations, and algebra.

Like what do you need that for in life? Its so totally pointless. And maths is mandatory to do, so they need points from maths to get into University.

Like what is the point of learning these things. Surely they should be learning something useful. My cousins have said to me that they think that a lot of what they learn is totally pointless too

Apparently universities are having to reduce reading lists on courses because you g people are struggling to read, infer and retain. Thats really worrying. Critical thinking skills require you to be able to retain information and knowledge to be able to manipulate later to find an answer. This idea that you don’t need to be able to use recall is to me a really strange idea. What good would your doctor be of she hadn’t bothered to learn anything by heart and had to google it.

I never said it was original. No thread on here has to be original.

There are thousands of posts on here about similiar topics eg. "I hate the school run"

The majority of posters on this thread disagree with you - and yet you think you, and the two or three who do agree with you, are right.

Talking of arrogance .....

I always liked the analogy of a rugby player lifting weights in the gym. They don't lift weights in the same way during a game, but it exercises and strengthens the muscles. In the same way, maths strengthens the brain - yes, most of us don't use algebra in day to day life, but we use the same logical approach to problem solving/ thinking rationally about problems/ encourages us to understand fundamentals in arguments. All worthwhile skills

Are you really in your mid-thirties, OP? Because your tone of writing really evokes an outraged teenager who thinks life is just so unfair.

Maths is about teaching you how to set up and solve problems logically. You have to build the foundations and skills in a formulaic way. It looks like it’s been the same way for 100 years because that’s how you start with counting, move on to basic manipulations, algebra, calculus, and beyond. It’s not done that way because it’s designed to be boring, it’s designed to introduce concepts in a way that you can build up to handling things that are more complex. You can’t for example talk about percentage changes without talking about division. You can’t talk about decimals without learning what the real line is. You can’t talk about Hamiltonians, Lagrangians, etc without talking about algebra.

I actually did set up some pen and paper simultaneous equations the other day to see if I could fit a piece of furniture diagonally in a van, and at what angle of tilt the furniture could be accommodated as it was too tall to go in either vertically or horizontally.

I make >200k a year as a quant. I have to know about quadratic equations because it is the foundation of quadratic optimisation, which is the grandfather of most modern computational optimisation. It is so fundamental to so many processes that you will encounter every day. Any time you use any kind of electronics or machinery, there will be some QCQP going on under the hood somewhere.

I also doubt that ‘financial maths’ if it were taught in school would have any utility whatsoever. The kids who piss around in normal maths will piss around in that too, and continue to have misplaced pride in their innumeracy.

Not if they think that, no. It’s on a par with saying “why do I need to learn to read and write, I can just watch YouTube videos and send voice notes”.

In a child, they probably don’t have the perspective to see how they will use it. Adults don’t have that excuse.

Unfortunately my point is entirely based on what I think of yours so tricky to make it without appearing 'rude' .

You are also being very dismissive of our education system which I find annoying ! The vast majority of us here benefit from a free , excellent education system that we should be grateful for - espcially if you compare us to other countries.

You are certainly allowed your opinion but I am allowed respond to that .

My dh uses algebra in equations for work. He’s a design engineer.

Algebra is basically code, Any software engineer you meet is using algebra on a daily basis

You using mumsnet right now will have code and algorithms in the background using algebra and maths.

If you use a banking app the security system around it will be made using maths and algebra.

If you do some DIY and need to measure out the size of something and there’s an “unknown” you’ll use maths and algebra to work it out.

If you run a business and want to maximise profits based on sales volumes and price you’ll need to use maths and algebra.

If you need to save £X over 2 years at Y% you’ll use algebra to work out how much to save each month.

If you’re baking a cake for 8 people but the recipe is for 12 you’ll use maths.

I could go on with more examples.

Still think algebra is irrelevant? Your comments so far have shown you don’t understand algebra.

To be frank OP you don't sound like you received much education yourself (mathematical or otherwise). You lack basic critical thinking skills that are a direct result of a solid well rounded education.

OK OP, so you don't like the maths curriculum and algebra.

How do you feel about a subject like English literature? Where students have to write essays discussing the themes of a book. Is that useful in today's society?

If you're having a pop at STEM subjects, can we at least have a pop at arts subjects too?

How original!

Ive seen that insult that pop up in every thread.

Some one calls the OP a teenager. It's a bit of a strange insult.

"I dont agree with you so im going to call yoy a teenager"

My DH used maths all the time as a research scientist. Some of his research was life saving stuff. I used statistics in my job and used them in my research as a student many years ago to investigate educational outcomes and socio economic status and also for voluntary work to get funding as well as funding at work That funding enabled us to get a grant to help set up a food project.

I studied maths to degree level and even though I'm now in a profession that on the face of it doesn't need it (law), I find the discipline of thought and application of logic that maths requires (given that is is essentially just applied logic), to be hugely useful. And even if I'm not directly using the techniques I learned on a day-to-day basis, the modern world is and has been shaped by those that do, so it's probably worth carrying on with it. I mean - 'Algebra is irrelevant to the modern world'...FFS.

Yes, maths gets very complicated at some stage, beyond what is needed for most jobs/everyday life. I remember not really getting geometry in my last years of school even though I got good grades and loved every other subject (not in UK or Ireland).

What annoys me here the most is RE in primary school. They seem to have more RE than art, computing, music or D&T and it doesn’t make sense to me.

I’m a social scientist and I use algebra in my job for statistics and modelling. If I hadn’t learned maths I wouldn’t be in the job that I’m in, and at high school I certainly didn’t know what it would be that I would want to do for a career so I’m bloody glad that I did have to do it.

What a disgusting, idiotic, nasty post.

I got a 1.1. grade in my Bachelor's Degree.

Did you?

One of the strengths of the British system is that the compulsory subjects are examined at 16. After that, if you fail maths GCSE you are encouraged to retake, but if you pass, Maths, like all A level subjects is an optional choice at 16-18.

Rishi Sunak wanted to do away with that and have compulsory Maths to 18. All I can say to that is good luck! We have the highest levels of school refusal in our history. One of our strengths is that 16-18 year olds have considerable control over their education. We have a huge range of academic and vocational courses to choose from. If we introduced compulsory subjects, attendance would drop off a cliff. They can’t get 11 year old school refusers into school so what hope do they have of making young people who are legally adults take a course they don’t want to take?

I’m going to bet that you use algebra every day.

I’m sure she doesn’t approve of history, geography or MFLs either. After all, she didn’t speak French or map out an oxbow lake today, so what possible use could knowing about the world around you ever be?

I've seen young people say that algebra is pointless to study. Are their opinions not valid?

They dont have the experience to know what is and isn't useful in life.

But if education has “such a focus” on the skill of retaining information then why would universities need to reteach it? It’s clearly not working. Memorising and practicing taking in lots of info and problem solving with it would be a far better skill - maybe that’s just in my world of work.

If you want to study algebra, fine.

Many young people don't want to study it.

Their opinions are valid too