To think the school system is ridiculous

[Suflan]

This post is talking about the school system in the republic of Ireland, but I know that the school system in the UK has some similiatites, so this is also relevant to people in the UK.

I went to school in Ireland a long time ago, 20 years ago.

My younger cousins are just sitting their school leaving certificate (irish equivalent to a levels) this year and they and their friends have been posting about the exams, after it happened, on social media.

I was just thinking what they learn and do exams on is such a load of shite. Like how is it relevant or necessary in todays world at all.

They posted about their maths paper, all the quadratic equations, prove that point 5,1 is on the line etc etc, extremely complicated equations, and algebra.

Like what do you need that for in life? Its so totally pointless. And maths is mandatory to do, so they need points from maths to get into University.

Like what is the point of learning these things. Surely they should be learning something useful. My cousins have said to me that they think that a lot of what they learn is totally pointless too

And yet I have an education, work in a school, and speak to students and teachers all the time.

Have you ever heard of confirmation bias. You don’t like maths/ algebra/ Shakespeare so you are more likely to see and hear from people who don’t like it. Anyone who has said otherwise you have called bitches/ nasty/ ignorant!

Maybe Challenge yourself and open your mind.

I'm head of tax for an engineering group and I'm a chartered accountant. I use algebra every single day, so do most of the people who work for the group in their interesting, valuable, well paid jobs. But you're right, best we stop teaching it and ensure that nobody ever becomes an engineer or an accountant ever again.

I never said that I disliked Shakespeare actually.

I like Shakespeare's plays.

What I did say is that I think that there should be more variety on the English curriculum. I pointed out that my cousin is studying the same Shakespeare play in 2025 that I studied, 20 years ago.

What I did say is that I think that there should be more variety on the English curriculum. I pointed out that ny cousin the same Shakespeare play that I studied, 20 years ago.

Yes, but that's not the ONLY Shakespeare play that's on the Leaving Cert syllabus. It's a five year cycle. So one year will all do King Lear, as you and your cousin did. But all next year will do Hamlet, the year after Macbeth, etc. It just so happened that your cycle coincided with your cousin. It doesn't mean that nothing has changed in 20 years!

If it's for A-Level equivalent then surely they need it for a particular career/university?

I don't think that every school should be studying Shakespeare for all of eternity.

There are plenty other playwrights. Change it up

@Suflan

I don't think that every school should be studying Shakespeare for all of eternity.
There are plenty other playwrights. Change it up.

But the point about Shakespeare is that it's a foundation for the whole of English literature. It underpins so much of literature over the past 500 or so years that if you want to explore literature further in any meaningful way you have to understand Shakespeare. Anyone who is planning to take English at A level or beyond has to understand it.

That doesn't preclude anyone from reading James Joyce or George RR Martin or Joseph Conrad or Margaret Atwood.

But in the same way that you need to understand algebra to do a maths A level (and so much more), you need the foundational understanding of Shakespeare to approach English.

Obviously most kids won't go on to be literary scholars, just as most kids won't become mathematicians. But why would you remove something from the basic curriculum if its foundational for all kids? Worst case scenario and you hate Shakespeare you suck it up for a couple of terms and then it's out of the way. No one loses anything by learning the basics here.

I can understand your wanting some changes to the curriculum but as you work in education you must know algebra is used for many things so why would you want that dropped or wonder what the point of it is, or say who uses algebra anyway? (I used to say that but I left school at 16 knowing nothing about anything).

Why won't you answer the multiple questions asking what you actually do in a school? My Grandpa works in a school. He's the odd job man. He wouldn't have a clue about the education system.

So again, what is your job?

Loads of careers use algebra. In engineering, design, architecture. Even fashion design has to have a good understanding of maths. (Ever wondered how they make the same outfit in a size 6 and a size 18? Maths.

carpenters use trigonometry daily. Honestly the people who think maths is pointless are completely clueless.

I do a challenge with Year 6 every year in that they have to think of a job that doesn't include any maths at all. No one has ever been able to.

Also, imagine not understanding why we teach Shakespeare. That's a bit embarrassing, OP.

He's not the only playwight on the syllabus! It took me 30 seconds to find that the 2025 Leaving Cert also includes plays by:
BUTTERWORTH, Jez
EURIPIDES
HANSBERRY, Lorraine
KEANE, John B.
Mc MAHON, Phillip
MILLER, Arthur and
SAMUELS, Diane

You're basing your entire (completely flawed) understanding of the system on the fact that 1 play happens to be the same one studied by your cousin.

No it's not embarassing at all.

Op, it seems that in the school you work in, a lot of students are coming to you in your welfare role saying they hate maths, they struggle with it, they fail to see its relevance. You also say that there are very few pupils taking maths at A-Level. This suggests to me that there is a real issue with the quality of the maths teaching in your school.

The way maths is taught is so critical. I feel this very strongly, because I was a strong performer in maths at GCSE, getting an A without much effort. We had a great teacher who explained the concepts well and made it fun and interesting.

As a result I chose to do maths at A-Level. I wanted to be a nuclear physicist. Sadly, our wonderful maths teacher had a bad accident in those summer holidays, and left teaching at short notice. He was replaced with the school’s deputy head, who had a maths degree but hadn’t done any actual classroom teaching for donkeys years.

She explained no concepts, just wrote copious notes and diagrams on the blackboard that we had to frantically copy down, with no time to think about it. I vividly remember desperately trying to teach myself from the text books, getting nowhere and falling further and further behind. Inevitably I failed my A-Level. Gave up on my physics dreams. Have spent a lifetime saying ‘I’m rubbish at maths’, when objectively I can’t be that bad, having got an A at GCSE. But the experience was quite traumatising, so I get where your pupils may be coming from (though I disagree with your conclusions).

Anyway my rather rambling point is that maybe it’s the teaching that needs to be looked at rather than the curriculum. It’s so important it’s done well. We need to be investing in and nurturing good teachers, and addressing all the issues that are making them leave in their droves. It’s a hard subject, but so, so important.

You need to pass maths for university, but you don’t need a pass at higher level. A pass at ordinary level is fine unless the course needs maths. (All subjects are available to study at Higher or Ordinary Level for the Leaving Cert, some including Maths are available at Foundation level too.) I think Foundation level Maths are okay for some courses too.

Your points for university entry are calculated from six subjects. Most people study seven, sometimes eight, subjects for the Leaving Cert. So you can get a pass in Maths at ordinary level, but then use your other subjects to calculate points.

Lots of people do this actually. Higher level Maths is quite a challenging course, reflected by the fact that you get extra points for that subject. You get more points for HL Maths than you do for HL in any other subject.

Oh, it really is.

So are you going to answer the question? Are you a dinner lady? The receptionist? A parent reading volunteer?

And to add, there's 36 poets, 20 novels, and even 10 films on the syllabus this year! How much more variety could you want?

The op did answer. She’s in a welfare and safeguarding role.

The OP's arguments here seem to boil down to: the average teenager doesn't like these subjects (algebra/Shakespeare) because they are hard and "boring" (ie they don't properly understand them) so schools shouldn't bother to teach them at all.

It's pandering to a generation which has been weaned on social media and has an attention span of about ten seconds: like arguing that its OK to get your news from Facebook rather than bothering to learn from a range of diverse sources because its "accessible" for the kids.

The entire point of education is to give kids the space to step back from having to focus on meeting day to day needs and day to day attention spans and give them a chance to think a bit more broadly.

Depressing and hugely limiting.

I don’t think you know what algebra is as it’s probably the most useful maths I learned at school for everyday life!!!

5 + x = 13

6 x y = 24

Those basics are algebra!!!!

Or in gaa terms...goals and points!

Algebra is understanding, writing and solving formulae.

Computer programmes and coding and language is built around formulae.

Many jobs require people to use spreadsheets and manipulate data using - formulae.

It is irrelevant to you if it is irrelevant to you. But it is not irrelevant to everyone.

You just need to use some imagination to think of who and how it could be useful for.

An excellent post.

This website was built using coding which is algebra . In fact the whole internet runs on it !