To think that free breakfast at school is a bad idea due to the quality?

[Mushypeass]

Firstly, I fully agree with the principle of free breakfast for all pupils. My reservation comes from the quality of food that is often served up in UK school canteens. Obviously a poor quality breakfast is better than no breakfast at all but AIBU that it could encourage children to eat even more UPFs? For example, children who have may had a relatively healthy breakfast at home may now opt eat UPFs at school with their pals instead.

Seocondly, why is the food so poor in so many schools? How can other countries manage to provide their youth with nutritious and healthy meals but we can’t?

DS usually has porridge or overnight oats at home, with nut butter, fruit and Greek yogurt, occasionally poached eggs but there's not often enough time mid week. He's only been to breakfast club once as we don't usually need it (both work locally and not in an early start industry), he had shredded wheat with milk, a banana and some grapes, maybe not ticking all of the boxes his at home breakfast would but reasonable. It's also only £3.50 and starts at 7:45. His school has about 35% pupil premium students. If a family was struggling and got it for free, I think it's a sufficient breakfast.

So what, yes of course you can blame the parents if you like, but you're missing the point.. it's not the child's fault if they've not been fed.
In many cases the parents are neglectful yes, but removing the provision wouldn't encourage them to feed their kids either, in that case.
Punishing the child to get to the parents?
Wow.
No wonder Reform are gaining momentum in this country with attitudes like this. No room for nuance, just a big sweeping and damning attitude towards all.
It doesn't really affect you, clearly. You can still afford bread and jam from ocado, so what's your issue?

Of course some breakfast inside a hungry tummy is better than nothing, but I think the problems this country is facing with regards to food poverty are huge and I’ve no idea what the answer is. Even NHS dietary advice is poor. And the issue of poor quality food is not just in schools, but also hospitals, prisons etc

The UK has the highest UPF consumption in Europe. High UPF consumption is linked to heart health, diabetes, cancers, dementia etc, and now research is linking high UPF consumption to adhd, autism and poor mental health.

In an ideal world, UPF food wouldn’t be the most easily available ‘go to’, but in a world where porridge might be cheap, not everyone can afford to cook it.

We should be providing our kids with healthy, nutritious, unprocessed foods from birth. Our kids should be growing up eating fruit and veg, not coco pops and chicken nuggets.

School breakfasts are just the very tip of the iceberg.

I can afford bread at 75p and jam at £1?
Listen to yourself and think. Are you really saying parents can't afford £1.75? Just think about it - really?
And wtf have Reform got to do with anything??

I don’t know if you’re being deliberately ignorant but surely you must realise that breakfast club is a lifeline to some parents?

I doubt anyone hauls their kids into school early just so they can have breakfast “with their pals”!

I am very grateful to be able to feed my children a well balanced breakfast and then drop them to school afterwards with a full tummy.

I cannot imagine how awful it would feel to struggle to do that, as equally how awful for the kids who would go to schooo hungry. Thank God breakfast club is there for those who need it.

I think free breakfast and lunch for all creates an issue.

School meals should be means tested and if it that means parents on high incomes pay a market price, those in the middle pay a subsidised price and those without means get them free, then sobeit.

When services are provided free at the point of delivery, it makes complaining about poor standards very difficult. Just look at the NHS.

Our DC are grown up now and I recall their state school lunches were abysmal. I think they cost about £1.70 in the early 00's. A good quality packed lunch cost more. I was happy to pay more. The quality of the lunches were raised at every PTA meeting. I can't imagine that being so easy if they are free.

When things become universally free it makes advocating for high standards difficult.

The majority of families do not need the state to feed their children and it is wrong.

I'm scotland as well. Specifically south lanarkshire. And there is always fruit and veg available at every meal. The kids pick their lunches every morning. My youngest in nursery has a pic of the food so she can see and can choose. My oldest in p4 picks a tray.

Thursday is steak pie and baby potatoes and already my oldest cant wait as she loves it.

I thought they served up things like yogurt, toast and cereal. That's OK surely?

Greek yoghurt, freshly made or sourdough toast and porridge would be more than ok. But the flavoured yoghurt, mass produced white bread and Rice Krispies are all ultra processed.

Our huge over consumption of UPFs is causing heart disease, diabetes, cancer, dementia, autism, adhd, mental health problems. It’s really not ok.

@Mushypeasswhat school are you visiting to see those types of food for breakfast? My kids school breakfast is extremely healthy if anything too healthy, the odd cheese on toast wouldn’t hurt. I very much doubt a lot of schools have the types of food you mentioned.

It’s great they’re doing it but bloody shit for my business which is a breakfast and after school club. They’re all going to leave because they can now get it free at school. Sorry that was a de rail rant!

I went to France recently and every children's menu was chicken nuggets and chips or processed ham and chips.

They also have a children's after school snack that is basically chocolate pieces in a baguette.

I'm sure French children do eat better overall, especially at school but it's not some exotic eating utopia.

DDs school are piloting the government funded free breakfast club. She loves to go because her friends also go, and the school make it fun with games/music etc. She tells me she has rice crispies most days.
I do wonder if attending will include her into a statistic of ‘unfed children’ which is absolutely not the case, we have no issue providing breakfast at home.

"Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you." (George Orwell, Road to Wigan Pier)

Unfortunately they're still better with their parents. The level of neglect has to be quite serious before the outcomes are better away from their biological family.

A couple of years ago we started offering a free breakfast club for children on FSM, funded by us with no Govt help. We didn't make a big thing of it, and only told the parents of those children. Other parents who need it for childcare still pay. It's only a small TA run service for 30 mins before school starts.

We provide the basics - toast and cereal with a variety of spreads, and cereal choices. There is always milk and fruit available too. Sometimes we have crumpets, and sometimes (ready made) pancakes.

We had barely any takers and we were told that if we wanted to do this it should be in school time, (meaning the children would miss the first 30 mins in class) rather than them having to come to school early. The children also moaned about the bread (we tried wholemeal, then the 50/50 stuff before reverting to plain white) and the plain cereal, wanting chocolate versions.

I'd rather the Govt upped the funding for lunches so our provider can give a decent sized plate and better quality meals - that's where our problem is, lots of children qualify but few take up as the kids don't like what is on offer, or they bring snacks (crisps/pastries) to top up because the meals are so small.

Generally my view of the food offered in many British state schools is that its terrible. Cheap crap, small portions.

My son had school dinners for one year and in that time his weight relative to his height fell. He was constantly hungry. My friend is on the governors and admitted she'd seen the food and it was pretty awful, but that the school had no choice, it was the only supplier covering local schools with no kitchens and they had a statutory obligation to provide infant school free lunches.

I read the government guidance on whats supposed to be in these lunches from a nutritional point of view and couldn't see how they were possibly meeting it from the recipe info on the providers website.

I can't see how breakfasts will be any better. The problem is so much of any budget the government provide for it will go on paying staff to make/serve/transport it, plus admin of planning menus, logistics etc, fuck all money is provided for the actual food.

It would be cheaper/better to provide food vouchers to parents for standard bundles of milk, oats, eggs, fruit, yoghurt etc but that wouldn't solve the issue of chaotic homes who can't manage to feed their DC well even when there is plenty of food available.

Panda89
See this is why i would never send my DC. Rice krispies might be low "sugar" but nutritionally they are a poor breakfast. They are just air, you need to eat a massive bowl for a growing child to get enough calories.

Right, so for once can the responsibility not be put on their feckless parents?

Do you not remember Jamie Oliver’s dinner?
The problem is, they won’t eat anything else other than cereals or toast with jam and Marge
We need to get back to Sure start where we’re teaching people to wean with porridge and baby rice with fruit added to it instead of a Greg sausage roll from the minute they can hold it

This.
These parents who are saying that, why?
In Scottlland and you don't work, you can have a huge amounts of benefits due to gateway benefits,
CB, UC, housing benefit, Scottish child payments, and then in the holidays, extra money because not getting the free school meals.

Not where I work.

Chips, pizza (massive, greasy slice), hash brown in a bun, pasty, bacon bap, donuts, big chocolate cookie. Some white bread/baguette sandwiches with ham/cheese/chicken & mayo.

Same every day. No actual meals. No salad. No veg.

It’s been that way for 10+ years. Like Jamie Oliver never happened.

The OP has a point. Children on FSM deserve better.

Surely this is down to costs though.food had increased hugely. Obviously it would be best if every child had wholemeal toast ,and the better cereals.this is a start at least. Many children may struggle to eat at home,maybe poverty or just lack of time .most parents working.eithret way porridge is very cheap,filling and nutritious.

Exactly.
I can accept there are useless parents, feckless parents and parents who don't prioritise the time, organisation or money to have food in the house.
But I cannot and will not accept that any UK family, working or not, does not gave the money to buy a loaf of bread or box of cereal, sorry.
That's not privilege, it's common sense.
I have no idea why people are so keen to push the narrative tbh.

A bad breakfast is better than no breakfast of course but it would be good if it was decent food, but decent food costs money and children moan if they're not used to it. But with time they would get used to it but is the will there to keep going despite complaints?

I'm in Finland, my DS has been going to breakfast club this school year and its always porridge (different type each day so oat one day, barley another, four grain, wheat, rice, so some variety but always healthy except perhaps the rice porridge), bread (not cheap white bread but wholegrain sliced bread or rye bread) with cheese or ham to put on it plus some kind of vegetable like cucumber or lettuce or tomato slices. Its the same breakfast they have at nursery so they all get used to it. Similar deal with lunch (which is free for everyone and everyone eats it - no packed lunches), fairly healthy meals, no burgers or chips or pizza ever though there is UPF foods sometimes like fish balls, salad and vegetables and decent bread/crispbread. In preschool they have the rule that they all have to taste everything even if they don't like it so they get used to all the flavours.