To think that nature is oppressive

[MonTuesWeds]

And the goal of our progressive politics is to extricate ourselves from the oppression of nature? I don't think IABU

Nature is oppressive? Can you explain why you think that?

Not anything much that's progressive about politics at the moment Op. Nature's not oppressive, it's the natural order of things, only humans think they're above the natural order

You have made a post to deliberately make no sense and get a reaction 😕

Unfortunately you live on a planet and you’re a part of ‘nature’ and rely on it to stay alive.

Nature is red in tooth and claw

But as a species we survive best in cooperative groups

I think politics had a role in preventing things that occur naturally from oppressing people, yes. I don't think that's controversial. The lack of agreement arises when people have different ideas of what constitutes oppression and different ideas of how politics should address it.

Mother Nature is wonderful. Mankind are those that make life the crap it is sometimes 🙄

I think you need to say more. Are you talking Hobbes' nature or mankind, that our lives are nasty, brutish and short, and the goal of politics is to mediate?

Or what?

Can you clarify what you mean by 'nature'? Do you mean the natural world or human nature?

Yes, I've got a hedge that really gets me down and an ants nest on the drive that fucks me right off.

Is this a TRA post? Do you mean we should replace sex by gender identity? If so, you must think gender is not innate ( given by nature) but entirely chosen.

If any of this is your view then you are being very unreasonable.

Reproduction is natural, we use developments in healthcare to liberate us from this through the use of technologies like abortion and the pill. Trans rights are predicated on the notion that one can transition, this of course is facilitated by technology/drugs. Women no longer have to feed their babies as we now have formulas so they're not tied to them and soon we will have artificial wombs to gestate for us. Progressive politics is entirely focused on using technology and science to free us from our natural constraints, to transcend our limited horizons. To quote Laboria Cuboniks "if nature is unjust, change nature!"

What distinction between the two did you have in mind?

But we don't like to accept the natural order, because its oppressive

Probably should have said all this in your original post.

Mother nature is sometimes not at all wonderful though. Illness, disease, baby loss, infant mortality, terrible things that happen to animals in the wild etc.
And the best of humankind (medicine, a functioning society, education, people working together) can help to mitigate some of those effects and make things better.
Not sure it's a total binary though either way. Humans do a lot of rubbish things too, and mother nature can be wonderful. But nature isn't all flowers, sunshine and rainbows either.

Thought it was fairly obvious 🤔

I was right!

You really have contempt for women and motherhood don’t you? And children and babies are beneath your concern. Mothers and babies children have a close bond as this is essential for the healthy development of their brains and bodies. This starts in utero. Children need their Fathers to be closely bonded too. All this is necessary to produce healthy functional adults. It is not something we should be ‘freed’ from.

Parents nurturing their children is not an example of oppression.

Ate you saying lesbian couples shouldn't have children? If a gay couple want children, why shouldn't they have access to reproductive technologies?

No, it’s not ‘nature’ which is oppressive. It’s many/most human societies which are. To take one of the things you touched on, breastfeeding isn’t in the least oppressive, if you’re in a society which is supportive of it.

Am I the only one that still hasn't got a clue what OP is on about?

I think 'nature is oppressive' is a bit simplistic and a hugely sweeping statement. 'Certain primal human instincts and functions are not entirely compatible with some aspects of how lots of people prefer to live in the modern world' might be a slightly more reasonable way to put it. 'Nature' is a word that encompasses many things, most of which aren't oppressive.

OP you are unclear.

What is your premise / point?

Can you explain it again in simple language - “as if I was five”?

Then happy to discuss, as it sounds provocative and therefore could be an interesting debate!

I think its about trans rights.