To think that nature is oppressive

[MonTuesWeds]

And the goal of our progressive politics is to extricate ourselves from the oppression of nature? I don't think IABU

Nature is the only thing that makes sense on this planet.

Never said that, but this is a noticeable avoidance of the points I did raise.

Perhaps you are not as sure of your position as you pretend to be, if you have to evade any counter arguments.

You didn't say it but it was implied by the comments you made. They weren't counter arguments. Adopted children can bond perfectly with their non bio parents.

Of course they can. But you still need two biological parents to make the child whatever way you acquire children to care for.

Surrogacy is an emerging area of exploitation of poor women.

We do not have a right to have children per say, especially where it involves purchasing eggs, renting wombs and destroying a child’s biological links, in order to meet our own needs.

As for women being able to control their own fertility, to choose when or if to have children then yes that is a good thing.

But trying to defeat nature is an impossibility, as various waves of diseases, and the ability of bacteria to mutate is proof of.

OP, nature is beyond fabulous. You only have to look around you to see that.

Without male and female, egg & sperm, no one will need an artificial womb. Yes, technology helps us adapt it when we want to, but nature is the starting point for everything. It is anything but oppressive. It's bloody brilliant. 😊

You’ve interpreted what I said through the lens of your own prejudice.

You never responded to the point I actually made.

You have a poor understanding of what it is to be human and a non-existent understanding of child development.

Reproduction is natural, we use developments in healthcare to liberate us from this through the use of technologies like abortion and the pill.

We also use reproductive technologies to assist reproduction, with varying degrees of success, when nature lets us down. What is your point exactly?

100% this.
Humans have ruined so much that there's no going back with some things. Nature will always try to balance things out - people should listen to the Earth, it's the natural super-power.

We are part of nature

life is tough - you live , pay taxes, die
that is life

it’s up to you to embrace its glory or sulk and strop

There are limitations to the degree to which we can interfere with nature.

Humans cannot gestate babies without a woman's body to do so.

Humans cannot transition.

To take two examples

So I'm all for how science can help us with the negative effects of nature (like antibiotics for example), but we need to recognise the limits.

Nature doesn’t care about your opinions. It just is.

Ohh I thought you meant things like ants farming aphids or viruses subverting the machinery of cells to produce copies of themselves. Or those fungi that grow in insects and radically change their behaviour before pushing great big mushrooms out of their heads.

What definition of 'oppressive' are you using?

It’s not just pushing the limits of how we can curb nature though - I think we need to get better at understanding how we impact it and how out impacts and hurt it, and so us in the longer run

we need to be better at seeing ourselves as part of the ecosystem, and better at seeing how wonderful the ecosystem is in supporting us rather than finding it hateful or oppressive or something to be curtailed

No, I find this sort of thing incredibly dystopian. We shouldn’t be trying to change biology to fit in with whatever our current political ideals happen to be- at the moment that would seem to be a world full of desexed Barbie dolls. We should be fighting for the political acceptance of our actual biology.

We should be fighting for the political acceptance of our actual biology.

Exactly. Perfectly articulated.