SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

My DH is retired and my DS gets a taxi home from his specialist school. This is good for DS, and means DH can be more flexible with DD after school activities, I can WFH if DH needs to go out or just needs a break for his own wellbeing.
Our DD is also about to start secondary and will get the bus home. Getting a lift from parents is not something most DCs do at secondary and it's more age appropriate for him.
It might be possible for us to pick DS up but it wouldn't be appropriate.

Everyone has the right to mainstream education. If a parent/YP wants to be in mainstream, they can be in mainstream.

@HollyBerryz did you use the LGO remedies to bribe SENDIST? Why didn’t I think of that sooner!

Why do you keep harping on about "SEND advocates profiting from parents going to tribunal" like you're desperate for some kind of gotcha?

Do you realise how complicated it is to represent your child at a tribunal? Do you realise that some parents of disabled children are themselves disabled and therefore further disadvantaged by this system and need advocate services? That SEND advocates are often parents of children with SEND themselves who are trying to use their experience and knowledge to help other families to get the support their children are entitled to, whilst putting food on their tables given the very limited time and resources they have?

Whether a family represents themselves, hires an advocate or hires a lawyer, they cannot force the LA to allocate any funding for their child that the child is not entitled to by law. Parents are not cheating the system, and neither are advocates. LAs however, do knowingly withhold support and resources from children who are entitled to them, and an awful lot of the time they continue to do this until the point at which they are forced to abide by the law at tribunal.

Ok.

I can go back and edit my comment to say "AHH yes, all those with PMLD thriving in mainstream" instead, but it really doesn't change the point. The PP I quoted cannot possibly work in 'the sector' (no one call it that) if they believe the most severely disabled children are making do with mainstream while it's only the "mild ASD" sharp-elbowed parents kicking up a fuss over nothing.

Yup, LAs most certainly do withhold services people are entitled to, including SEND - a quick perusal of the ombudsmen page is chock full of cases where children have been left without suitable provision.

I think the system was better before EHCPs

student statements seemed to work fine and there was inclusion in mainstream

My daughter was in one school from reception to year 2 and started with an ehcp for medical reasons however they never followed it and when asked about how she was in school and to fill in a questionnaire when a speech therapist suggested autism and some form of co ordination issue they said there was absolutely no issues in school.
she moved schools half way through year 2 and with in 6 months they had requested a ed psych and asd referral. She was later diagnosed with autism, cerebral palsy and speech and language disorder. Schools sometimes don’t want to admit the issues.

I'm talking about when parents have requested OT/SALT as part of needs assessment and LA refuses. Parent engages independent and LA commissions their own. My LA has a service contract for OT, possibly SALT, so I guess they're not paying as such, but it does eat into that budget. The LA commissioned OT did tell me how many hours her assessments and reports took, but I've forgotten.

It's really hard to get access get access to OT from the NHS route here. Probably the same everywhere tbh

Yep. My son's school laughed when I said I thought he is autistic and has ADHD. Fast forward a few months and he now has a diagnosis of each. School staff have a lot of children to deal with and are typically not SEN experts. I know far more about SEN than the majority of the staff at my son's school and I know more about EHCPs even than the SENCo. That's fine with me, as long as they don't start criticising me or putting unnecessary obstacles in my way. Thankfully they haven't so far (apart from their initial reaction) and we have an excellent partnership.

This. SEN children are being failed every day by the LAs withholding these services. Just because it's regarding funding does not make this okay, and it does NOT make the parent the villain for challenging unlawful decisions!

"AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs"

That has never happened. The child only ever gets what others decide they need.

It does. We are very lucky with my son's school's SENCo and actually I find her quite knowledgeable... but we have both accepted that I know far more than her about EHCPs (and about different routes to an ASD and ADHD diagnosis) (plus, crucially, she would never dream of criticising me for fighting for my son's rights). Many SENCos would not accept that, or don't have much knowledge- sad but true. SENCos don't always need any qualification in SEN at all, incidentally. I'm not saying they're all (or even majority) bad, or incompetent - there are many competent and well-meaning SENCos - but the OP is not helping matters with her disgusting and ignorant attitude!

Exactly. The ignorance of the OP is astounding.

This. Amazing that she has some sort of magical insight into what other children's specific needs are, far surpassing the skills of any other SEN professional... 🙄

I do find it interesting that there was a thread not all that long ago around people’s children education being disrupted and it not being fair. The general take was it was because of the high level of Sen children in the classes and not enough support. Now we have a thread about how people want too much support for the Sen children and want expensive schools instead of being in the local authority schools.

can’t win really !

Sadly this is very true and what we experienced too. Also for children who mask staff don't see the difficulties. Parents see it when they get home and the child is in shutdown or meltdown. They see it in the morning when the child is running to the toilet thinking they're going to be sick. They see it when their MH plummets and they stop enjoying life and become unable to access things they used to love and enjoy. They see it when their appetite drops and they barely eat.

I don’t know why this point is always ignored I have learning disabilities and didn’t get the education I needed. I will probably never work

Do you have a SEN child?

Yep.

On that thread I was told that my child should be in a SEN school because of concerns he was taking too much attention away from other children yet no alternative given when I explained a SEN school wouldn't be appropriate for my child's educational needs.

And this is harming educational outcomes of non-SEN kids up and down the land. It should be acknowledged that mainstream is designed for those who can sit quietly in a class of 30 and get on with it. If they require more than 1/30th of their teachers attention they shouldn’t be there, no matter how much their parents want them to be. It’s simply not fair on the others in the class at all.

We need to open local authority schools that meet the needs of these kids. That much is obvious. It would cost far less than £100k a year.

Yeah, teachers told me that my kid didn’t need the things I asked for. Weirdly when we went to tribunal I won every time.
special needs teachers and TAs are not specialists in what kids need, that’s why we have other services give their opinions on this stuff. And why we have an appeals process.
your poll is very one sided so I won’t be answering as it is a biased poll.

This was my point earlier

we had 3 options of schools when we first started looking

mainstream school with ehcp 1-1 and local authority SLT / OT / physio provided by the borough . Which is how it has works in primary. But mainstream would have a lot more children and she would struggle massively with the amount of time she needs off and staying integrated in the school and ed psych agreed she would unlikely succeed there.

local authority maintained Sen school which was higher cost to place but had the therapies on site however they were not willing to take daughter due to the fact they didn’t offer the level of GCSEs she was capable of and her cohort were less cognitively able and so they refused based on this and how she would purposely be left behind academically.

the mild Sen school which was independent and offered full mainstream curriculum which fees included far more sessions of integrated SLT/ OT / Physio and did not need to be outsourced by local authority. Also included lunch etc ( currently on free school meals )

all in all the budget of her going to the independent school for secondary cost 3 k more in total than her current mainstream primary school ehcp.
they won’t need to fund 1-1 for the school
they won’t need to provide SLT /OT or physio
they won’t neee to provide free school meals or travel or any of her laptop / chairs etc they currrntly
her ehcp for mainstream secondary would have likely cost more than her primary so that 3 k a year would likely been eaten up in other ways
and she can meet her full potential and get her predicted GCSEs and move on to higher education and a good career which in the long run is better.

Being in a MS school can be the cause of the MH issues. So it doesn't require a 'bespoke private education' but the MS environment may not be suitable. Mental health provision won't solve the problem if the environment is reinforcing it. What most parents want is an appropriate, local state option.

Some children do need a bespoke option; however.