Why is it so hard to fire someone in some organisations?

[Merryoldgoat]

Now I am someone who thinks it’s important to have fair hiring practices and maintaining a professional work environment.

However my DH has been having an utter nightmare with one of his team members and HR have made him go through an unbelievable amount of rigmarole to just get to the point where they are about to offer him money to go.

The guy has been less than two years.

A few examples of what he’s done

Lied to my husband’s face about when he started work multiple times

Missed deadlines after reassuring DH he’d ’nearly finished’

Going AWOL and refusing to answer messages or calls

Inappropriate use of sick leave and annual leave

Saying he’ll attend meetings and not turning up

At least 5 occasions where he claims to have emailed or messaged DH on Teams but ‘it didn’t send’

Never on time after already agreeing a later start time than everyone else in the team.

Every time DH has tried to address firmly HR have said they need to offer more support and it’s not reached the stage where they can let go.

They are now going to probably pay him 4-6 months pay which seems mad given he’s clearly not capable of the job.

It makes zero sense to me - if you work in HR can you explain this?

For context DH works for a university - I don’t know if that makes a difference.

I’d have been able to dismiss this person months ago if they worked for me.

Some employers have a fear of tribunals. You can lose one for not following process to the letter in some cases.

Public sector or private?

‘DH works at a University’ tells you everything you need to know.

I work in HR, in the private sector and that individual would have been long gone . I would have worked with your DH to put a performance plan in place and documented everything. They wouldn’t be walking away with any money either, except for their notice pay and any holidays owed.

The only exception would be if they had disclosed something health wise or a disability and then you obviously need to tread carefully and ensure support is in place.

That’s correct, but the person in question has been there for less than 2 years. Unless they can show they have been discriminated against due to a protected characteristic, then there’s no tribunal happening.

I had a colleague at a previous job who was a nightmare. Our job was to sort out benefits for vulnerable people some of them terminally ill and he would constantly not inform people properly of their entitlement. I complained numerous times and nothing was done. I got the impression that it was too much hassle for the manager to go through the measures of proving that he was incompetent. I eventually left the job due to not being able to cope with his cock ups any longer . It took a new manager to eventually get him out of the job.
It has been pretty similar in my current job again. No one prepared to deal with people who are lazy and don't do their job properly, so it just goes on. Both charity sector.

Id put bets on this person having a disability.

@Lucyccfc68

DH showed me his notes - it’s pages and pages. Shocking actually. Are universities like this then? I don’t know really.

His HR business partner sounds so wishy washy.

DH & HR have asked repeatedly about whether he has anything he needs support with and there’s nothing disclosed.

If he does surely he needs to disclose so proper adjustments can be put in place?

See NHS virtually impossible to sack anyone.

Sounds like the HR department are scared of potential consequences, maybe due to a protected characteristic, or cost of legal action. Having said that, it's highly inappropriate for your DH to be discussing this with you in detail and showing you his notes.

How is in inappropriate to discuss work issues with your spouse? He’s not disclosed anything confidential about the person - just relating the facts of what had happened.

In my workplace they’d have been dismissed during probation.

Risk averse organisations
Lengthy processes which are required under ACAS codes and good practice
Useless line managers who don’t want to have that difficult conversation

He didn’t display these behaviours during probation.

HR matters are confidential. You’ve got a bullet point list of this person’s misdemeanours. I’m assuming you know their name. And you’ve seen notes. I accept he’s frustrated but it’s definitely a breach of confidentiality.

Very common in the public sector unfortunately. Very risk averse and are shit scared of the Unions and any bad publicity,

I have previously worked in the civil service and a local authority. Both were absolutely useless at getting rid of poor performers,

Pretty much everything you've disclosed here should be kept confidential.

Definitely a breach of confidentiality if I had showed anyone my work notes about a specific person I would be getting fired.

What are you doing sharing all this on line. You could've easily asked this without any actual detail . Why is your husband showing you paperwork from his work?

I think you should ask for this to be removed.

Sounds exactly like a situation I’ve had. Similar kind of employer. Absolute jokers in HR. All support was for the new person who needed to be fired, not the legacy team who were victim to his bizarre behaviour. Plus we had to cover his work in the meantime! I have never known anything like it, it was like the twilight zone and took up most of my time for months, logging issues and gathering evidence. I did everything by the book, followed all proper protocols and it took the best part of a year. Thoroughly depressing. No one had the guts to, or would allow me to, fire him point blank, even in the face of irrefutable evidence of poor/dangerous performance.

I’ve not read the notes - he’s shown me the obscene amount he’s written.

If I didn’t put any detail I’d have had people saying ‘can’t answer without context of what they’ve done’

What is an inappropriate use of annual leave?

Hope no one recognises the scenario on real life from your husbands view point.

I worked in a supermarket, now retired and the amount of staff we had who were useless and took absolute liberties with timekeeping, attendance even uniform and nothing was ever done about it. I witnessed one colleague shouting and swearing at another colleague in earshot of customers. I actually was pretty upset and wrote my own report of what I'd witnessed and reported it but they just had a word and carried on as if nothing had happened. The only time I've known someone be sacked was when we all refused to work with him. They had grounds but not the balls but eventually they had to. All this does is bring morale down and that's not good for anyone.