Children picking their own teams

[Alifemoreordinary123]

AIBU to think this is old fashioned and not the best way to do stuff?

My DD struggles with school, she has some ND traits and finds the girls relationships and dynamics really hard. They’re doing a challenge at school and have asked the children to self select teams of between 3-6. Immediately, the popular extroverts were selecting their people, with all the others wanting to group with the popular ones. My daughter isn’t in these little groups and actually had her own idea for a project but no one wants to be in her team, consider her project or will listen to her. It’s basically a popularity contest.

I’m supporting her to acknowledge but dial down how hard this feels for her. She’s upset, not sleeping and generally this is making her feel sad. It’s not the most important thing in the world but it feels like one thing after another atm.

Is it unreasonable to expect schools to allocate groups in this day and age given that adults of old have fed back on mass that being left out is horrible and has a detrimental impact on confidence and input from less popular kids?

Are you talking about Primary or Secondary school? Because picking up your own team was a primary school issue here, isn't it?

I honestly have never noticed that being "physically attractive' makes a difference with a bunch of 7 years old.

It's not an Enid Blyton novel, but the popular ones - everyone knows who they are - are nice and good fun and at that age, frankly, the social class seems to be a non-issue. They're wearing the same uniform anyway, and all organise the same kind of birthday parties.

The unpopular ones that I am aware of are frankly unpopular for good reasons. I can't even blame the kids!

I understood all of what you had said, I just think it's an odd take on things. All I can say is, you definitely didn't go to the same school as I did.

Yes, football-boys like to be with football-boys, minecraft-kids like to be with their minecraft-friends. What's wrong with that?

Nothing. But that isn't the same thing as the cliqueyness some popular kids generate. Did you never watch Mean Girls?

I'm talking about both. And physical appearance was absolutely a factor, even in primary school. I don't mean attractive in a sexual way, I mean conventional good looks. Helps greatly to draw people to others, children included. It's even more apparant from the other end of the scale where children who are not conventionally attractive or look different - overweight, too thin, some unusual physical feature- were often less popular by default.

Nailed it.

As the mother to sporty, generally popular, DCs I can assure PPs that the one who is now 8 years into a career as a professional sports coach would never, ever use this method of selection for 7 to 10-year-olds.

if we are talking about the same kind of "clique" posters mention about the school gates because some parents happen to speak to each other, or god forbid be friends, no I don't really agree about the "clique" when it's just kids being friends with specific individual. It's normal to prefer spending time with your own friends, at any age?

And I haven't noticed bullies being remotely popular: other kids find them disruptive, other kids don't like to be at the receiving end of the bullying, and also children are not stupid. The way many school deal with the disruptive lot is not fair. Children notice and resent that bullies get encouragement and rewards for behaving for one hour when the rest of the class behaves an entire week for no recognition.

That’s awful

thought that sort of punishment went out in the 80s

No, not that kind of clique. I referenced Mean Girls earlier, I'm talking about that kind of clique/subtle verbal bitching and bullying, the 'who, me, miss?' kind, where some students are wilfully mean towards those they consider beneath them, but it's done so subtly they can do the round-eyed innocence thing if called out on it. (Think Carrie without the telekinesis and pig's blood, in fact.) Not at all the same as merely preferring to spend time with one's own friends.

Re your second paragraph I somewhat agree re disruptiveness, the sort of thing some boys do at primary, but that's not the sort of bullying I meant, I was referring to the more subtle insidious stuff. I was subjected to it pretty much every single PE lesson in secondary that involved team sports, so I can tell you it definitely exists. I was deliberately tripped in many lessons, for example, so that those responsible could have a good laugh. Another time one of them picked me first for her team and then, when I warily started to walk towards her thinking this was bound to be a joke, she started falling about laughing and most of the class joined in before, still laughing, she shooed me back to where I'd been standing. Another time a classmate literally screamed in my face for letting a goal through in netball. There would be oh-so-funny comments made just loud enough for me to hear when I went up to bat in rounders. At no point did the teacher intervene in any way, they tended to treat the non-sporty kids very dismissively in general.

All part of the general jollity that was my physical so-called education. So yes, these types of cliques and bullies definitely exist.

I'm a primary teacher and we never do "picking teams". It's outdated, not inclusive and a complete waste of time because I can sort the kids into teams in a quarter of the time.

My autistic DC was recently picked last at her secondary school when they had team picking and found it very difficult. I was particularly annoyed as she has a personalised plan which says she struggles with PE and sessions should be made inclusive for her.

Possibly not so bad in a club or team practice which is voluntary and you might expect there to be an element of competition, but absolutely not acceptable for lower set PE where part of the aim should surely be to foster enjoyment of PE for kids who might find it challenging.

Mean girls weren't primary age

yes, it's ridiculously outdated and I hate it.

Not in the film they weren't, no. In real life, there absolutely are primary-age mean girls IME.

actually to be honest this can happen at primary school already with usually the popular girls that being quite bitchy catty and bitchy to girls that don’t fit their popularity requirements “you got a phone? who on earth would text you? mummy and daddy?” it’s not just disruptive behaviour that is easy for teachers and other adults to spot etc

This is awful practice and was outdated at least 40 yrs ago. It's one of the first things a teacher learns, never let the children pick pairs, sides or teams. Please ask to see your child's teacher, this really isn't good enough and the teacher should know that.

Tich Miller
Tich Miller wore glasses
With elastoplast pink frames
And had one foot three sizes larger than
the other.
When they picked teams for outdoor
games
She and I were always the last two
Left standing by the wire-mesh fence.
We avoided one another’s eyes,
Stooping, perhaps to re-tie a shoelace,
Or affecting interest in the flight
Of some unfortunate bird, and pretended
Not to hear the urgent conference:
“Have Tubby!” “NO, no, have Tich!”
Usually they chose me, the lesser dud,
And she lolloped, unselected,
To the back of the other team.
At eleven we went to different schools.
In time I learned to get my own back,
Sneering at hockey players who couldn’t
spell.
Tich died when she was twelve.

Wendy Cope

I'm not sure how I feel about this. For OP's daughter of course it sucks to be left out, but if the teachers always picked the groups we'd then have threads complaining that their child was made to team up with a bully/can't agree on a project/weren't teamed with their friends when everyone else was/etc.

Crikey, that's dark. Sounds like she might have based it on a real person as well.

We would, yes, but it'd be easier on the kids.