Children picking their own teams

[Alifemoreordinary123]

AIBU to think this is old fashioned and not the best way to do stuff?

My DD struggles with school, she has some ND traits and finds the girls relationships and dynamics really hard. They’re doing a challenge at school and have asked the children to self select teams of between 3-6. Immediately, the popular extroverts were selecting their people, with all the others wanting to group with the popular ones. My daughter isn’t in these little groups and actually had her own idea for a project but no one wants to be in her team, consider her project or will listen to her. It’s basically a popularity contest.

I’m supporting her to acknowledge but dial down how hard this feels for her. She’s upset, not sleeping and generally this is making her feel sad. It’s not the most important thing in the world but it feels like one thing after another atm.

Is it unreasonable to expect schools to allocate groups in this day and age given that adults of old have fed back on mass that being left out is horrible and has a detrimental impact on confidence and input from less popular kids?

Kids picking teams was the norm when I was at school.

An idea to promote randomness is to have a numbered ball - the number in the register and a kid draws a ball and the kid assigned by that number is selected.

In year 6, we were assigned a number and tasks were drawn from 1 pupil to 10 pupils. I think it was evenly spread out throughout the year. One month you may not got selected and the following, picked 7 out of 8 times.

I still remember the shame and upset of being the last one or the last but one to be picked. Makes you feel like shit.

I’ve been teaching donkey years and have never done this. Terrible idea. Either have pre-allocated or something like the pick stick.

I have kids.

Them, and I, had and have to pick our own groups. In sport, it should be left to the coach - the teams need to be balanced one way or another. In these projects? Of course it's fine.

What is shitty is the adults looking down at 8yo and calling them "popular' with a nasty tone and a bullying attitude.
all the others wanting to group with the popular ones. that's the description from one parent, not the kids, tells you all you need to know.

It’s hard to think of a time when I’ve disagreed with a poster more. The harm caused by children selecting their own teams in PE is substantial and long-lasting. From my own personal experience it has lasted well into adulthood and has left me with low self-esteem and a hatred of team sports. I still feel the burning in my cheeks from standing in a line desperately hoping someone would pick me and trying to fight back tears when they didn’t.

My daughter would come home from school in tears after every PE lesson in primary school because she was picked last. What made it worse was that she wasn’t actually that bad at some sports, so she was left with a clear belief that she was picked last simply because she wasn’t liked in her class.

It’s not rocket science. Children stand in line. Teacher goes along the line counting 12121 (or if the kids have tried to fix the system like my son and his friends do 12211221…). Teams chosen at random. Job done.

I hated this when I was in school and as a teacher now myself, I avoid it unless I know the group is fairly homogenous in ability and all get on. Otherwise I plan the groups considering abilities and personalities so it is as balanced as possible.

I loathe doing group work with my classes for particularly this reason - choosing groups always causes a hassle that I can’t be bothered wasting lesson time on. I tend to avoid it at all costs, otherwise there are always situations of toxic groups that mess about and quieter kids who get left out!

I bloody hated this at school, (quiet, unsporty) and when working at schools. Boys were the worst, (though girls could still be like that) no idea that actually having teams that were fairly equal makes the game more challenging, just want to win by a huge margin and humiliate the other team. You’d choose the teams, and they’d just shrug and go “whatever” and go with their mates. (And as cover teacher you look like a dick if you go to hoy or hod and say something)
Ive never seen it on a school project though, allocation on random criteria)

I’m totally on side when people point out that those now at Uni and entering the workplace seem to be too intolerant of criticism/ those that think differently to them. That they need to grow up, learn some reason and resilience and realise that the world is not there to accommodate their every wim. That they are over protected and under prepared for realities of the world. Etc., etc.

BUT as a child who was picked last to be on a team at every PE or other sporting event, I can say without hesitation that it was only utterly horrible and did me no good whatsoever. It’s a horrible way to manage what can be a rather difficult part of school life anyway, and teachers just need to do it. Though, sadly, a teacher managing team selections is not going to stop other children groaning and making horrible comments when an unpopular/ unsporty child is picked for a team. Nor will it stop them shouting dismissive and aggressive things at other kids during games. Personally, I have always hated team sports and, indeed, those awful team building exercises work sometimes gets people to do on away days and trainings.

Oh, and one more thing. I was a child who read. And that line from the film/play Shadowlands is absolutely right: we read to know that we are not alone. There are some marvellous childrens’ books out there that show that being the cool sporty kid is not always the only thing in life.

I used to do something similar. Number the line, say 12345678, then randomly choose numbers 1 and 7, 4 and 6 etc to make up the teams. This would stop the smarty pants who tried to work out where to stand to get into a team with their friends, they never knew what numbers I was going to put together!

Mwah hahaha, evil teacher laugh.

What I found interesting working with this age group is when you’d set it up for for the ’non popular’ kids to be captains and have them take turns to pick teams… they would always pick the ‘popular’ kids first for their teams. You would maybe see a best friend picked first but then it was a pretty traditional pick rotation.

I have no real opinion either way on if self selecting teams by children should still be going on. I agree it sucks to be picked last on the other hand it’s not realistic in life that you don’t have people that are more or less popular.

Urgh i remember it well, not being the kid who was picked for teams. No it most definitely is not the way to do it and school should know better.

Scotland is part of the UK. We don’t have “year 3.”

Thanks all - this has been resolved today by someone being ousted by one of the groups (I heard this as it happened this morning) and my daughter buddying with her and another girl.

The more I’ve considered the more I disagree that this is ever needed or helpful - not being chosen for PE is the most frequently quoted traumatising memory of school by adults. We should learn from this and support children to be more inclusive.

To those who took exception to my use of the word “popular” — fair enough.

I suppose what sits behind my frustration is a wider sense of how much society elevates the outgoing, confident, extroverted types — whether it’s in celebrity culture, politics, boardrooms, or even the classroom. Those who are quieter, thoughtful, or less socially dominant often have just as much to offer, but can be overlooked simply because they don’t shout the loudest.

Rest assured, I don’t act on this bias with my children’s friendships. I just wish our systems were a bit more conscious of the quieter voices too.

Trouble is, by the time you’ve explained it, countered the groans, explained it again, sorted out the cheats, the lesson is half over.
I saw this countered beautifully by a group of boys who were chosen last so ended up on a less sporty team. They basically stood still or barely moved. The other team then got bored and were yelling unfair. You chose the team mate.

I think the teacher has been far too wooly with this one.
Self-selecting teams can be fine, if you define how many teams, have the same number in each team as far as possible, choose some fair way of deciding who picks so it's not always the same people, and give the groups some guidance for for agreeing their project. Then everyone gets into a team, and everyone has a fair shot.
The teacher in this case has given everyone the freedom to pick teams but has given no one the authority to do so. It is literally an anarchy. OP's daughter wants to run their own project, rather than do someone else's idea, which is fine, but can't recruit anyone to it, which is setting people up to fail, IMO.

I'm not a teacher but I coach at a kids' sports club. I think there's a middle ground. I generally let the youngsters pick their own partners for training activities as I'd say that on the whole they tend to gravitate to someone who is a good match for them and they work better with partners that they're comfortable with. However, if I spot hesitation or it looks like someone is going to be left out then I'll intervene, usually just by saying something like "Emily why don't you work with Abby this week?" before Emily is obviously left out.
But if we are splitting into teams for a competitive activity during a session then I pick, so that the teams are balanced, every team has a chance of winning and everyone gets something out of it. It isn't in anyone's interests if the strongest kids are all in one team - including their own. Nor does it benefit youngsters to exclusively work with their close friends. I view participation in sport as being more than just the activity itself, there are wider, transferable skills to be gained, some of the most important of which are team working and stepping outside your comfort zone. I don't force anyone to pair up someone I know they really don't get on with but nor do I allow best friends to be joined at then hip all the time, or existing friendship groups to exclude other children.

Hated this when doing PE as rubbish at it. Being in a quiz group, they all wanted me

I suppose what sits behind my frustration is a wider sense of how much society elevates the outgoing, confident, extroverted types — whether it’s in celebrity culture, politics, boardrooms, or even the classroom. Those who are quieter, thoughtful, or less socially dominant often have just as much to offer, but can be overlooked simply because they don’t shout the loudest.

There's a bit of truth in that, but when will we teach our children to become more extrovert if we molly cuddle them for years?

You can't change your personality and you don't need to, but you learn to be outspoken and confident. It's a necessary life skills. "Being shy" is not a compliment or an excuse for copping out of normal life.

It's helpful to our children to encourage them towards activities and behaviour and become naturally confident. The more you do, the less of a big deal it is.

Totally agree. I wasn't sporty or popular at school (almost definitely ND and really hadn't found my feet as a person yet - I was odd, in a nutshell) and being picked last every time was like ritual humiliation. Plus it encourages clique behaviour. Teacher should pick (mixing things up a little would also allow students to bond with others in the class a bit more), and IMO should also allocate pairs for pair activities. There were times at secondary when I literally had no friends, and the 'find yourself a partner' thing could be even more humiliating.

YANBU.

I was always the last to be picked for everything - they wouldn’t have picked me at all if they could’ve gotten away with it. I still have a memory of being stood there whilst the popular kids chose their teams. In the end there was two of us left standing and they ended up arguing (as in the whole class, not just the pickers) about who had to take me. I was mortified and it’s had a lasting impact on my self esteem. I’m 44 now and still assume everyone dislikes me.

Yes you’d get told who to pick

I Think it is horrible for your dd

Not in my observation. They would pick the same kids first without prompting from anyone.

I mean ime you would pick a sporty kid yourself and then get advised by them who else to pick itms