To expect my daughters teachers to suggest supportive strategies when they ask to meet with me?

[Bushmillsbabe]

I was called in by my year 5 daughters teachers yesterday, they raised concerns that she isn't doing as well as expected as they feel she isnt always as focused as she should be - she isnt disruptive, just not always 100% on task. Absolutely fair enough, and I thanked them for involving me/updating me. I asked what strategies they could suggest to support her in school to try to bring her up to the expected level, and I would follow these through at home. Their response was 'oh we are far to busy to do anything just for her', we just wanted to tell you.
So I suggested us as parents buying her homework books in line with their curriculum so we could go over what she learnt to help re-enforce it, but could they tell me which pages we should be doing each week - no, they dont have enough time. I suggested we would pay for tutoring but could they email tutor 2 lines each week on which topics they were covering. Nope, not enough time for that either.

Now, I fully appreciate how busy teachers are, but there are only 17 in her class, and there is a teacher, a student teacher and a teaching assistant in there full time. But what on earth is the point in pulling me in to tell me for 45 minutes that my daughter is a bit 'daydreamy' without suggesting a positive way forward.

I of course have spoken with her to say she needs to focus better even if it's a topic which she isn't as interested in, it's still important to her learning and respectful to the teachers to try her best.

But beyond that, I'm at a loss.

Instead, I would ask why parent has equipped with ear defenders. Had this been suggested by a professional? Similarly, has a professional suggested fidgets, blu tak, seating plan changes and a wobble cushion? If it sounds as if all these strategies are coming from home and being rejected, it could be because these aren't strategies - in the same vein as bespoke homework and learning plans to be provided to a private tutor aren't strategies.

The basic task is to understand what an educational / educational support professional looks like and what someone else looks like. Loving the way you're throwing around 'gross incompetence' though, how very TikTok- by which I mean does nothing to support children in the classroom.

Also, the 45 minute, the useful suggestion was around focus, or did you miss that bit?

Kind regards

Very frustrated teacher

We haven't 'equipped' - she had them when younger, she was trying to come up with solutions. And it's fine if that doesn't work in the teachers classroom, it's their domain. These were just examples of how my daughter is aware and trying to be proactive.

No I did not ask for bespoke homework or learning plans or for anything to be marked , just page numbers from.a workbook. How long does it take to write out 'pages 10-15 this week'.

I didn't say anyone was incompetent, quite the opposite, I said I valued their skills and knowledge and hoped to gain more from this than 'she needs to focus better'.

No homework in year 5 is very unusual. Have you queried this? I would get her a tutor or at the very least some curriculum led year 5 workbooks and do those at home at the very least.

I am skeptical of schools ability to identify ADHD in girls. I've yet to hear of any who are able to say they are concerned despite also telling parents your daughter is too easily distracted or can't focus on work. It's like unless you're the naughty boy in the back of the classroom you aren't capable of having it.
The fact you have had concerns over ADHD previously and have noted things like fidgets/ear defenders may help even if school say no suggests this is more than just difficulty focusing. Difficulty with maths in particular can be something called dyscalcula, it's like dyslexia only numbers. It is a type of ND diagnosis in itself and has a lot of crossover with ADHD too. I would consider a tutor and push for the school to make accomodations at least to try and support her and then consider speaking to GP or local SEN charity for support.

It’s really unusual that they are not providing homework in year 5. My son is in year 3 and getting homework now and has been since year 2. My daughter is in year 6 and was getting homework in yr 5.

Yes I have, we just got told that there was no evidence that homework actually improved attainment, and they didn't want parents helping and doing it differently to at school.

Yes, we have made enquiries with a tutor, but it's so near end of year they are full and have suggested starting in September. Thsts the other frustrating thing, why wait until nearly the end of the school year to let us know thete was an issue

@Nn9011 I think you are right there, she had flown under the radar up until now I think as she isn't disruptive, has no issues with friendships, does well at music, sports etc.
I don't think she has ADHD though, I'm a paediatric OT so used to working with children with ADHD.

Who suggested she had these? Did you come to this conclusion yourself?

For clarity, you wanted a teacher to provide suggestions about homework from a book outside of curriculum, provided by yourself, and feel they're not supportive because they're not doing that. You also seemed to suggest that the teacher should communicate with your private tutor to say what should be studied in private tutoring sessions outside of school and were disappointed that this wasn't supported.

It was another poster who suggested incompetence, but I was interested what structures you're going to put in place to support monitored focus.

The book was the homework study book linked to their curriculum, they knew it all.

I just came up with suggestions, if they had alternative suggestions beyond 'tell her to focus' i would have been very happy to try these. I only came up with them in desperation after they seemed to have nothing more to say. You don't go to a dr and then decide your own treatment, you come to them with a concern and they as the expert suggest the solution. They don't just say 'go home and get better'.

We have no issues with focus at home. She can engage with tasks and carry them through multiple stages without issue, such as cooking, crafts, gardening, games, household tasks. I don't need to prompt her, she may ask for help of needed.

I just had a chat with her a bit more about it and she said she gets stuck, asks for help, they tell her 'not now, wait a minute' as they are focusing on the 'loud kids' and then she doesn't know how to move forward so stops and wait as told to do, then the teacher moves on to next topic.
So actually the issue is understanding rather than attention, but if they glance at her it will look like she is doing nothing so I can see why they say she isn't focused, but they aren't addressing the actual issue. As another poster said, as she isn't creating a problem in the moment, she isn't a priority.

Yes I think it sounds like they are gently suggesting she may have some SEND and were sounding you out to see if you’ve noticed issues at home.
Did they mention the GP or involving other professionals?

I agree with you OP this was not helpful!

I can see others have suggested the possibility of ADHD but neither you or the teachers think that’s the case, which is fair enough. I will say that my own experience with a child who did eventually turn out to have ADHD diagnosed mid pandemic as a teen just prior to GCSEs at great expense privately, is that I also had a lot of frustrating confusing meetings like this in primary school with him! Settled to some extent after reception year where I was constantly called because he wasn’t sitting still in carpet time etc. But still not producing work quickly enough, daydreaming, getting distracted etc. Eventually in year 5 I said ok are you telling me you think he might have ADHD? And they were like oh hmmm well we never really thought about it as he’s so bright academically but now you say it I guess we are repeatedly saying he struggles with his attention and concentration so if you think that’s a possibility that could explain some things… I think teachers do struggle to bring the possibility of SEN issues up sometimes as some parents react badly to the suggestion.

However if you think it’s an understanding thing as above then maybe your best bet is to encourage her to be assertive and vocal, keep her hand up and loudly remind the teacher if needed that she’s still waiting to ask her question before the teacher moves on etc if she’s really not understanding something. It may be worth getting a tutor involved to support her with the things she’s struggling with, they’ll generally know what’s being covered at school for her age and will be able to recommend materials needed.

They've thought about where she sits and who with, short instructions, reminders to get on with work, timers to get maths done, bespoke rewards for things she finds difficult, e.g. writing inside the boxes in her maths book.

The main thing for me is to try to work out what helps whilst at primary school, whatever the issue is. That way the 12ish different teachers at secondary school have some information to go on, rather than having to work it out themselves.

All the evidence suggests that primary school homework is useless at best and damaging on the whole.

Schools looking at evidence based learning have rejected homework - usually in the face of parental objections because parents erroneously believe it helps.

The more I read about this teacher the more worried I am, seems a case of blaming the student rather than finding the solutions. I'd be tempted to speak to the Head Teacher. I agree with not setting special work etc but it is their job to engage the student and ensure progress. There are a ton of strategies a teacher can use.

@Britneyfan thank you for your detailed reply.
We didn't have any issues earlier on, no concerns raised by teachers about her sitting still etc.
She has tried asking more than once/reminding teacher, but got told off for being disruptive. She also tried asking other children on her table and got told off for distracting them.
I brought up topic of ADHD, I work with children with ADHD so am aware of it, but I appreciate how they may worry to raise with some families.

And yes, we will be getting a tutor, I just wish they had flagged this to me sooner, so we could have tried to address earlier in the year.

100% this

Feel for your daughter OP. Getting ignored because you're not being generally disruptive has been an issue in schools forever it seems. You either have to be genius level clever, or naughty to get teachers attention and help. Of course she's going to sit there doing nothing if she doesn't understand the work and no one is teaching her.

A tutor may help her keep up with the learning that may solve the problem, but if the teachers call you in again you should consider telling them about this. They need to pay attention to the quiet students too, if they can't then this kind of thing is going to happen

They are not telling you to do work with her at home, they want you to tell her to focus at school and stop messing about /daydreaming

Would you be in a position to get an assessment done by an educational psychologist (assuming that the school wouldn't agree to her being put on their list of kids for assessment)? At a similar age, I noticed that my child was struggling to start tasks, was distractible, and not producing work that met their verbal levels of production. It turns out that they are dyslexic and can't integrate all of the processes that result in written work. The educational psychologist recommended different strategies to help (including the use of task planners, printed handouts, change of seating position so that they always face the whiteboard, and use of a laptop for longer pieces of written work).

All that said, it sounds as though your school are very resistant to adaptive strategies and you may well have to fight hard for any considerations to be put in place.

Yes I get that, and of course I have told her to focus. There is no messing about, she is never disruptive, except for putting her hand up to ask for help/asking her friends for help. She is the child that gets sent on most of things to represent the school - sports comps, debating comps, visit to houses if parliament, as her teacher says she is very reliable.

But if she has not understood earlier parts of the curriculum, and you need a clear understanding of 1 part to move onto the next, my question to them was how we can work together to catch her up on the parts she has struggled with so she feels confident moving forward, otherwise she will just fall further and further behind.

@EmotionalSupportBlanket yes we will consider this. We have now arranged a 1 off assessment for her with a well regarded local tutor, and will then look at other options depending on what they say - will hopefully help establish if the problem is with her learning abilities or the way the information is presented in class/the class environment.

It's the teachers job to engage the children and ensure they are on task. (Ex teacher)

You are still the parent

A lot of people buy the work books from Smiths and then just work through them at home without teacher input. You don't need to do the topics at the same time as the teacher or for the teacher to tell you what pages to do when

But they have specifically told us not to do this, as if they study a topic in a workbook before they do it in class it may teach them a different approach which they then have to try to unpick.
I have no issues with buying workbooks and sitting down with my daughter to work through them, but I am trying to follow school advice/requests.