To feel like pub staff should not turn a blind eye to inappropriate comments?

[LaurenSw]

We have just returned from a great week away in the UK, staying by the coast and travelling to nearby areas each day.

We visited quite a few pubs, and a feature in almost all of these was local men stood by the bar making sexual/racist comments and then chuckling away.

The bar staff would usually roll their eyes and tell us they just let them get on with it.

On the last day, my DH said something to a man in one of the pubs who made a particularly vile comment. The staff who was present actually told my DH to cheer up!

Is it me or should staff do more to cut this sort of thing out?

Because the OP mentioned Dover.

Horrible though it is listening to some of these pub comments and discussions, the world has changed over the last 40 years and there is a general lack of respect for any kind of authority. It's very difficult, very unpleasant and sometimes actually dangerous for staff in all kinds of settings to challenge obnoxious people.

Teachers get chairs thrown at them and sometimes knives pulled, A & E staff get punched in the face for asking people to behave themselves - to give just 2 examples.

Pub staff are usually very young, inexperienced and - on a low wage. Realistically they're not going to challenge drunk (men) people who are already being vile without any kind of challenge. If they were my staff I would advise them not to. Once a line has been crossed - if they were threatening people, then you could call the cops (except they'd scarper before they arrived) but I'd be interested to hear what pps think COULD be done by pub staff to shut down discussions which might offend some people.

Have we all lost the power to use our own words?

So many posts on MN where in ordinary everyday situations people expect to ‘report’ things or for someone else to say something, or look for ‘authority’ (police, school, 19 year old behind the bar) to manage a situation on their behalf. To have every social situation manicured to your liking.

Use your words or move away.

I am the wrong audience for that, mate
Not my opinion but there you go
We’re all different

Or whatever.

We KNOW the country is full of people with horrible opinions. 10 seconds on the internet tells you that. But it isn’t catching, just move away to a table and don’t engage.

I'm surprised at the replies. When I worked in a bar decades ago the staff always intervened and threw out anyone who insulted a customer or another staff member. Even when a bloke muttered 'wanker' under his breath about the barman the bouncer appeared and had him out the door before his drink was finished.

It was a really busy in demand bar though so that might have made a difference.

Racism is taken seriously everywhere I go however. My DH is not white and occasionally has been subjected to "in THIS country" or "go back to where you came from" vitriol while parking the car or shopping. We always inform staff and they always deal with it.

Yes - that's another issue. Where exactly do you draw the line on what's unacceptable conversation in a pub? We're getting into difficult waters here. Also - I don't know what the law says about private conversations. If you hear some people making racist remarks just to each other at normal conversational volume - what law has been broken? Some people are arseholes - fact.

How are all these horrible conversations going to be policed? It's impossible.

People are angry about 20 years of incapable and ineffective Gov. Look at MN - so much grumpy and critical comments -let alone the time bombs of the moment.

We are all pissed off. I wouldn’t strike up a conversation with a stranger on any subject other than the weather.

and brining in laws where you can be prosecuted for saying stuff - not conducive to friendly behaviour.

I suspect the presence of bouncers is significant. When I worked in a pub we also had them, which made a big difference. I don't see nearly so many these days, aside from in city centres and student areas. But then the margins are very different to what they were back in the 00s when I was in the sector.

Agree being in demand likely matters as well. When you have lots of customers you can be more choosy.

From the OP it doesn't sound like they were specifically making racist/sexist insults AT someone in the bar - they were mouthing off about being sick of illegal immigration and said a bunch of stuff along the lines of "just shoot the bastards", which OP presumably finds distasteful as they are human beings/refugees/fleeing warzones/whatever, but isn't a specific and immediate threat. It might not be how you'd express frustration with government policy and lack of border enforcement in nice drawing rooms, but isn't exactly the same as yelling racial slurs at random patrons.

This is different isn’t it? Abusing someone personally by racism directed at them is unacceptable. That is not the same as unpleasant opinions

and brining in laws where you can be prosecuted for saying stuff - not conducive to friendly behaviour.

And impossible to enforce - it would be 'he said, she said' etc. And you'd get lots of malicious allegations too.

You can't bring in a law which can't be enforced, and policing people's private conversations would be impossible. Now, if they're calling out insults or harassing other people, that's different, but just a couple of horrible people muttering racist/sexist things to each other - I can't see how that could be stopped unless the landlord intervened - and even that would be very difficult to make work in reality.

As pps have said - if you're offended, say so the culprits at the time or leave and tell the staff why.

As I thought, only two posts from the OP.

My university's student union bar had a sign on the wall thirty years ago to say they were against any form of sex, racial or homophobic prejudice and associated language- or words to that effect. How well it was enforced I don't know but it certainly felt like a safe space compared with some of the local bars and clubs!

@CoffeeCantata do you really believe that 40 years ago in some pubs there weren't people mouthing off about pooftas, wogs, ragheads, lezzers and much worse? Was that a lack of respect for authority, or was it perhaps that in those days the authorities believed similar?

Times have changed but bigots have and always will continue to exist and chat their shit in pubs. I'm not saying it is right or what I agree with, but in this country we have freedom of speech (thank heavens) and people are going to stay stuff that we may overhear and find deeply unpleasant.

Direct insults at another customer is very different to mouthing off opinions someone finds obnoxious.

The OP did not describe anything that sounded like a personal attack

I think racism and humanity go hand in hand. It’s everywhere .

I am sure you are a good person OP and are good intentioned. But it is no wonder that locals start to get frustrated with tourists when they start rocking up that their usual haunts, and trying to police their speech about topics they know very little about. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a fan of what was said about snipers, but I don't think its fair to start ripping them to shreds in their own local when you can drive back to your ivory tower where these things don't really affect you, and they are stuck in their deteriorating town.

So this happened in lots of pubs, but your dh only called someone out on it in one pub. You clearly didnt feel comfortable or safe to say anything to them, but expect an employee (not the owner) to feel safe and comfortable doing so? The people are probably regulars, and staff would have to deal with the fallout long after you’ve taken yourself home.

I was in a hotel once and a guy at the bar was making gross comments of a sexual nature. Meanwhile some quite elderly people, mostly women , were trying to eat their lunch.
The manager told him to ' moderate your language' . He didn't really but at least he spoke more quietly afterwards. Mind you , the way the pub trade is collapsing, not everyone can afford to pick and choose I suppose.

It sounds like they were blowing off steam about illegal immigration which many people in the country are upset about, especially in the working class where there is more a sense that they are losing out as a result, while those in wealthier areas are not impacted in the same way. No, the pub staff should not be policing these conversations.

If they were using the ‘n’ word or something like that then, yes, I would expect an intervention.

I’m really surprised at this thread. I’m not in the UK, I’m in NZ - twice in the last year I’ve seen men chucked out of pubs for making sexually inappropriate comments. From friends children who work in bars, there is quite a lot of training for bar staff on dealing with this kind of stuff though and while it’s not perfect, complaints are generally taken seriously.

Exactly. They don't get paid enough to get involved.

YABU. Even within a short distance there are huge cultural differences in the UK. I live in an affluent area. I've spent time 20 miles down the road in a poor post industrial town and met people with really regressive sexist , racist and homophobic views that seem alien to me, however, going into their social spaces and telling them they're wrong would not go down well. Their lives are very different to mine.

Voice of reason.

No - I think you've misunderstood. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear.

I meant that a couple of generations ago most people (there are always exceptions) would have taken a polite request or even a mild reprimand from an authority figure (teacher, nurse, doctor, pub landlord etc) with more respect than today. I mean - I don't know the stats, but did teachers and hospital staff, ticket collectors and transport staff in the 50s and 60s get the sort of obnoxious verbal and sometimes physical attacks which they get now? I would guess not. On the whole, people were more prepared to do what they were told.

But now I think people in authority (not the police, obvs) are risking their own safety when they challenge obnoxious people. Therefore my point was that it's a big ask to expect low-paid, inexperienced staff to tackle these people when they might be putting themselves in danger.

No. That's ridiculous.