To feel like pub staff should not turn a blind eye to inappropriate comments?

[LaurenSw]

We have just returned from a great week away in the UK, staying by the coast and travelling to nearby areas each day.

We visited quite a few pubs, and a feature in almost all of these was local men stood by the bar making sexual/racist comments and then chuckling away.

The bar staff would usually roll their eyes and tell us they just let them get on with it.

On the last day, my DH said something to a man in one of the pubs who made a particularly vile comment. The staff who was present actually told my DH to cheer up!

Is it me or should staff do more to cut this sort of thing out?

Who were they 'abusing'? - the op sounds as though they were chatting amongst themselves.

I'd rather live in a society where people have manners and consideration for others. That's hardly North Korea.

I bet all those talking about ‘hurty words’ would have something to say if the man was ranting about Karen’s or gammon.

We used to be a bit better than this.

There's a lovely little pub near me.

Like most pubs, it has a fairly eclectic but mostly male customer base.

The landlady is great and has no issue with ejecting unpleasant men. The place is still full of men. Just not the ones women have to worry about on a night out.

I saw her kick someone out recently who was leering at the young female bar staff. Not saying anything. 'Just' leering. Other men supported her when he initially refused to go.

If someone is being racist, sexist or otherwise threatening to another customer, then the bar staff should tell them to pack it in / fetch landlord to tell them to stop. Random chat that isn't targeted doesn't need to be policed though, if you don't like it then it's up to you to ignore it or go elsewhere.

I first mentioned Reform because I live in Essex, their natural habitat it seems unfortunately.

On the last day, my DH said something to a man in one of the pubs who made a particularly vile comment. The staff who was present actually told my DH to cheer up!

So they agreed with them. I wouldn't go back and give the racist and sexist scrotes my business.

I know. It's a bugger a political party making inroads.

What sort of pubs are you choosing to frequently frequent? Maybe start there.

It’s a business, they need the regulars more than they needed you as a passing tourist. Bar staff are probably paid poorly, accusing possibly drunk regulars of being racist is way above their pay grade

Well, that would be great, however, who decides what manners are "correct"?

And if "correct" manners are established, what happens if somebody challenges them?

For example, just a few decades ago, it was considered "good manners and considerate" for women in Ireland to refrain from sex outside of marriage. And in order to not cause upset to the "good" people, unmarried pregnant women were incarcerated in workhouses until they gave birth. The babies were either starved and neglected to death, or shipped abroad for a small fee. The thousands of babies who died were thrown into septic tanks and forgotten about.

But it was important have manners and consideration, wouldn't want to cause upset to anybody. I mean, what would the neighbours say if they found out!

These are the things that can happen if you don't believe people should be free to say what they really think.

I would be much more concerned if pub staff felt they could police locals discussing what they clearly consider to be a literal invasion of their country...

I'd have been chucked out of many pubs, during the trans debates, if we policed language. Because apparently, if women wanted those with a vagina to do strip searches, medical examinations, care, be in a DV shelter etc, we were abusers and bigots.
I've heard people from Ghana have certain views against Nigerians. Then there's the view of Nigerians, whose relatives have been killed by Muslims, on the Muslim religion, as they have experienced it, which would be branded racist on here. I've had some really interesting discussions, which if you heard snapshots, or wasn't open to freedom of speech, would have been shut down and wouldn't have developed, especially over Easter/Christmas and the discussion involved someone who is married to a Muslim. So although the pubs I go in are weatherspoons and typical WC pubs, they don't follow the stereotyping on here. I'm from immigrant background thanks to Liverpool being a major port and the men in my family being in the Merchant Navy. A lot of Irish head to Weatherspoons and they know racism.

Also @LaurenSw was the last day the day of the anniversary of the London bridge stabbing? There was a series of national events around that time, of pavement mounting and people being killed and injured. I remember really taking note of who was about and when I was on narrow pavements/crossing roads etc. It was a horrendous time. That will always cause comments.

@Chiseltip

Well, that would be great, however, who decides what manners are "correct"?

That tends to be cultural. For example in the UK it's considered polite to wait your turn, we don't like people barging in.

And if "correct" manners are established, what happens if somebody challenges them?

If you barge into an established queue,you'll be challenged.

For example, just a few decades ago, it was considered "good manners and considerate" for women in Ireland to refrain from sex outside of marriage. And in order to not cause upset to the "good" people, unmarried pregnant women were incarcerated in workhouses until they gave birth. The babies were either starved and neglected to death, or shipped abroad for a small fee. The thousands of babies who died were thrown into septic tanks and forgotten about.

This is a big pile of dung being used to create a strawman. There's a difference between not saying thanks and putting babies in septic tanks.

But it was important have manners and consideration, wouldn't want to cause upset to anybody. I mean, what would the neighbours say if they found out!

🙄

These are the things that can happen if you don't believe people should be free to say what they really think.

No it's not. It's made up nonsense. I'm talking about having consideration for others and having manners. It doesn't surprise me that you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about.

You know not everybody feels like that though don’t you, so it’s perfectly ok for me to reference them in any way I like. Just so as we are clear. I didn’t realise their name was verboten if you don’t support them. Personally I feel it makes me a bit ashamed of where I live in case anyone thinks I’m anything to do with them. Hence why I referenced them in my post, triggering you.

Yes the staff are unreasonable to actually intervene in support of the customer. Pins are like any other institution and shouldn’t allow racism and sexism on their premises. Obviously not possible to stop when it’s a private conversation but standing at the bar spouting low self esteem bollocks shouldn’t be tolerated and definitely not encouraged.

Then that's for you to deal with your own insecurity. ooh what happens if people think i vote Reform 🙄I'm not triggered because your kind of sneery judgemental attitude is all to common on MN.

You were triggered by me merely mentioning them @Dangermoo and now you have @ed me two or three times with your oh-so amusing ribaldry. So yeah, whatevs.

Is that worse than sexual abuse? Why only mention one of the two?

but no it’s not the job of the bar staff who have their own safety to consider and getting into altercations with drunk men is never wise.

So you would stay silent to avoid upsetting others?

Well said.

heres the thing. The UK is still socially a manners culture and pubs are a very good example of that.

Manners culture is an understanding that for society to work, you adhere to certain behaviours. We teach our children this when they are very small.

The alternative is rules culture. You can’t say that, you can only say this, this is unacceptable.

In a country with freedom of expression, we are going hear things we don’t agree with in pubs.

You’ve got five choices;

a) Argue back
b) Say nothing and quietly fume
c) Leave
d) Accept that someone thinks differently from you
e) Get into a fight

Rules culture says “police”. It asks the staff or the landlord or even worse, the actual police to get involved. Currently the only bit where the police should be involved is e).

Telling people what they can and cannot say does not end well. But I pubs we are all adults. Act like one before demanding that others carry your views for you.

I wonder how a thread would go if it started like this 'I was at a pub with my female friends and a barman came over and told one of us off because a complaint was made we said something wrong'

I wouldn’t expect the bar staff to deal with this, minimum wage doesn’t pay enough to confront drunk people. You also have to think about where you were, if you were in a costal town that regularly sees boats rocking up on the beach from France I suppose the locals would have different opinions about this topic, I have to be honest I wouldn’t want to have this on my doorstep if I was living in the area and I don’t think it’s racist to be concerned about it.

I wouldn't make comments that are widely accepted to be inappropriate. I wouldn't point and laugh at someone in a wheelchair and bray about free speech if they were offended.