No

[NoNoNoNo2025]

It's all I hear from DS since he turned 13.
No.
No.
No.
Come on it's time to get up now, you need to get ready for school.
No.
Come on get dressed or you'll be late.
No.
Please get changed out of your uniform after school to keep it clean.
No.
Please get ready for your club now, it's time to leave soon.
No.
Can you do your homework please.
No.
Time to go up to bed now.
No.
Come on, lights out now.
No.
You haven't eaten any of the vegetables, can you eat some veg.
No.
You need a shower/hair wash, can you shower today please.
No.
I mean, how do you parent this?
DS was completely compliant and obedient and perfectly happy to follow routine requests for the first 12 years of his life.
This is a sudden change since 13.
It's exhausting.
It impacts on the running of family life on a daily basis.
I am spending so long dealing with this behaviour because when he says no I have to then reiterate to him that he NEEDS to do x y or z because if he doesn't then x y or z will or won't happen. Still he says no. Then I immediately get stressed because his refusal to do things blocks the running time of what needs to be done. And it blocks me ftom being able to get on with things I need to do because of the time I then need to spend on managing this defiant behaviour.
Sanctions don't work.
I took his phone away for 5 days and during the time without it he told me he was really enjoying not having his phone and thanked me!
So next time I switched tactic and said right you're not allowed out with your friends for a whole week for constantly refusing what I'm asking you to do and during that week he said he was really enjoying not going out with friends after school and being at home more and thanked me again!
I took the PlayStation away for a week another time and he said he enjoyed it because it made him do other things instead of playing on a screen!
I can't think of any other sanctions.
I've looked at PDA but he never did this until age 13. Surely you can't suddenly develop PDA after 13 years? He never ever defied or opposed me before now.
It's really getting me down and it's affecting our relationship. We've always been so close and loving with each other. We are still close and loving. But his "No no no" to every basic request is really stressful and difficult to deal with and it's upsetting me.
AIBU?
Is this normal teenage behaviour?
I've tried several times leaving him to it and have stopped asking him to do things he needs to do, and it completely backfires. He just doesn't do any of the things he needs to do. This then makes him late for school which in turn makes me late for work and I get spoken to by my boss. Or he doesn't get ready for his club which makes him arrive late and then I get spoken to about it by the club. Or he doesn't go to bed or switch his light off which makes him unmanageable with tiredness the next morning. So dropping the requests and leaving him to get on with things doesn't work because he simply doesn't do them.

Completely normal teenage behaviour except it's "why" in our house! At 15 I can see the corner we just haven't quite got around it yet!

Have you asked him about it? Not while you're in the midst of trying to get him to do stuff but in a calm moment when he's being 'close and loving'?

Do you think he's maybe wanting some independence and feels a bit like you're micro managing him? I'd dial right back on what I was asking him to do tbh. I'd not be forcing a 13 year old to eat veg for example.

I'm wondering if he feels like he can manage a lot of this stuff himself so instantly feels aggrieved when you step in and start asking him to do stuff. What if you don't ask him to get ready for his club? Just give him a shout to say you're ready to go and take him and see what happens.

Do the same back everytime he asks for anything

"Sanctions don't work.
I took his phone away for 5 days and during the time without it he told me he was really enjoying not having his phone and thanked me"

lololololololol clever boy.

Did you ever remove his phone again after that?

It sounds like you ask him to do things, inviting the opportunity for him to respond to you, you could try re-wording it to tell him the facts in a way that doesn’t need an answer.

eg
‘Please get ready for your club now, it's time to leave soon.’
becomes
’I’ll be sat in the car ready to leave for your club at X time, see you there’

If he doesn’t arrive at x time make it clear you’ll only wait five mins next time and then he’s lost his lift.

Yea, this is clearly him bullshitting you op!

@NoNoNoNo2025 if you ask him 3 time and the answer is still no then ignore him and crack on with the things you need to do. If he's late for school/ club whatever then it's his problem for not getting up I/getting ready in time. Also if he asks you for anything just say no. I'm a mum of two teenage sons and you have my sympathy. Sometimes you have to be a little bit tough to preserve your own sanity

Tell the club to speak to him directly.... He's 13, not 3.

Why do you need to drop him at school? Can't he walk/cycle/get bus? If he's always late, surely he's getting detention?

You say he was obedient, but maybe he resented his own obedience and has now learned the power of saying No. Has learned that's all he needs to do. All he needs to do is be alright with any punishment you can dish out, and he is untouchable. What can you really do?

I remember that realisation. I had it a little bit older than your son. I didn't act on it though. I continued being obedient, although bitterly... The mere knowledge that I could just say no and not react to any punishments was enough for me. I was diagnosed as autistic at 36, but unsure if that has anything to do with it.

There's going to be reasons hes saying no to all these things. Does he disagree that he needs to do them? Why doesn't he want to? Does he think you ask too much of him, and he's exhausted of it? Has he stopped caring, if so why?

You need to talk to him to find out about this. The punishments won't work, he's already made up his mind to enjoy them and not let them deter him. So unfortunately, you're gonna have to communicate rather than ordering and punishing . Maybe that's what he wants really too....

Stay calm at all times. Think through a strategy to make a bigger impact. He’s trying it on with the phone. He’d be bricking it if you cancelled the contract… so you take the phone and don’t tell him for how long. Make sure it is well hidden. No lifts to the club if he’s not ready in time. If he gets kicked out, so be it. He is one cool operator - you need to accept this, and play a smarter game.

Neither of mine this was this persistent - and when your DS can deploy that characteristic for good purposes it will stand him in good stead! But for now you need to get on the front foot and when you’re stressed he thinks it’s hilarious. Change tack now. Stay calm, remove phone etc - for an unlimited time. When he asks, say - well, I’ll have to think about that! And give him a big smile and walk away. Basically, wipe the smile off his face.

I don't force him to eat veg! But he has suddenly completely eliminated all fruit and veg from his diet so I am trying to encourage him to eat vegetables at meal times.
I mean, I would LOVE him to manage himself!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG, that would be wonderful! But he doesn't.
So that's why I'm constantly making requests, because he's constantly not doing what he needs to do on a daily basis.
What would happen if I don't ask him to get ready for his club? He simply wouldn't get ready. He'd miss it. Yet he says he wants to keep going.
So this morning, he was meant to get up for school at 6:45/7am. I'm worn down with battling to get him up for school. So I haven't today. I've left him to it. And he's still in bed. He has to leave at 8am. He knows this. Its 7:40 so he's got 20 minutes left before he has to leave the house and he's laying awake in bed, simply not getting up or ready.
I've got to leave for work when he is supposed to leave for school.
So we are now looking at a scenario where we have both got to leave the house in 20 minutes and he isn't even up.

Sometimes children need to fail but school is non negotiable because it's you who gets in trouble not him

I'm aware it's tough I do remember shouting at ds saying I was looking forward to prison because I wouldn't have to chisel his arse out of bed in the morning

I get why the school thing is stressful, I'm not sure I'd be able to leave him to it for that but what if he does miss club? It must be exhausting for you to be constantly battling him so I just think, take some of those battles away. Save your energy for the big stuff. Let him stay in school uniform after school. Buy him a multi vitamin. How often are you asking him to shower? Maybe switch tactic and after a few days of non showing point out that he's smelling a bit ripe.

What's he like in school? If he gets in trouble for not doing homework is it likely to upset him?

Exactly!!!!!!
The precise reason for my stress!!!

I would definitely sit down with him and talk to him about this though. Ask him what's going on from his point of view. Ask him what he thinks should be happening in terms of him doing this stuff?

you sit down tonight (after you kick his arse out of bed and get him to school) and you have a discussion-
Right son it is clear the way things have been recently are stressful to me and I feel you are pushing back against me. Rightly so, I’ve been babying you in telling you when to get up and what to eat etc. So what would YOU like to happen- how is it you think you can show me you are responsible enough to get yourself up and dressed and ready to go, when we had the farce we did this morning?

Listen to his opinion and any ideas. And work with them if they’re half decent.

If he does not have anything workable, suggest something like this-

You can offer to give him “heads up” alongside his own alarm system- so he sets alarm on phone or Alexa for 7 and then you give him the heads up at 7.30.”that’s 7.30, remember you agreed to get up at 7”.

You agree on a timetable or schedule including getting changed out of uniform when coming in, putting washing away (clean to drawers, dirty to wash pile) showers on this day or this time each day… etc. Foods to include x no of different plant-based foods per week.

Failure to stick to the schedule has consequences… not being ready for club means he doesn’t go and the cost of this club is docked from pocket money. Keep consequences as close to real life consequences as you can. Suggest phone free time to connect and ask if there are other things he’d like to learn eg an instrument or martial art or to do with you. Agree to meet again after a week and check in with Joe it’s going- stress this is his life you are trying to help him grow more independent. Push the baby thing to adult… don’t raise a lazy twat man-child. Expect and demand more but praise and connect too. Be on the same team… and tel him this.

I would agree no phones or screens after a certain time and say good eight but I wouldn’t tel him to go to sleep- but remind him his wake up time remains the same regardless of his sleep time on school days.

Its about respect and right now he has none for you.

Word of advice, the “actually I really enjoyed not having my phone/the playstation” is a manipulation tactic to make sure you don’t use that punishment in future. There’s actually a kids YouTuber who “jokingly” suggests kids use it to make sure they don’t lose their phones in future.

It works very well because it appeals to the parents desire to see their kid enjoy less screens. Reality - no kid ever wants to lose their phone and be out of the loop for a week!!

In a quiet, non-stressful moment, talk to him.
Tell him that the persistent refusals to co-operate make life difficult for everyone.
Tell him you will try to stop micro-managing him (because that IS what you are doing!), but that he needs to come to the party.
Remind him that you do far more for him than you ever ask him to do for you.

Then back off for a while. Let him miss his club, and avoid fruit and veg.
But then, when he needs a lift somewhere, say No. Make yourself a snack, but say No to making him one. Show him what a lack of co-operation looks like the other way around.

Good luck! I suspect this is a phase because you’ve become (in his eyes) a bit of a nag. If you ease up, so will he.

Stop doing your bits. Stop helping him, stop cooking for him, stop washing his clothes, stop taking him to club. Whenever he asks for anything, you say no. When he gets frustrated, point out that the two of you both have easier lives if you co-operate with each other. It might not work, but it might make your point.

@Swiftie1878 cross posted!

When we were teenagers, if we didn't get up on time, my dad would threaten us with the cold flannel! Stop making requests and start saying it like you mean it - march into his room, open curtains/lights on and whip his covers off - every morning! If he's not ready for his club, he doesn't go. If he doesn't get his homework done, he'll get detention. Try and dial back on the demands, pick your battles and make sure you win them. Always follow through and just ignore a lot of the No replies. Just carry on like you expect him to do it. Teenagers pushing boundaries is normal but you need to be firm on the boundaries that are non-negotiable. Try and give him more autonomy over things that don't matter as much.

You have to let him experience the consequences of his actions. Example: if he's not ready to leave for his club on time, don't take him. After a couple of times, maybe the club leader will get in touch and tell him if he misses another one, he'll get kicked out. What would he do then?

School's tricky because of course you don't want him to miss it, but a couple of days wouldn't hurt at that age (and I'm speaking as a teacher). If he's not ready to leave at 8am, you head off to work and tell him he'll have to get himself to school. If he's late or doesn't go in, then it's his problem and he'll get into trouble.

Also, where's his Dad in all this? Does your DS behave the same way with him?

I think micromanaging everything for him will not improve the situation, in fact it'll likely get worse. You must draw a line somewhere before this escalates further.

My thoughts exactly. Reverse psychology.

You need to write down consequences, for your eyes only. And maybe do it like school would with first warning, second warning etc. Increasing the consequences each time. You must stick to them every time.

I would also stop doing everything for him. It is a two way street. If he is late to club, Don't take him. Or tell the coach/teacher to speak to your son while you listen.

School- he can get the bus or walk. He doesn't go then tell tbe school you need a meeting and he has to attend.

Washing- he doesn't wash his clothes then. Take everything away except the stinking uniform and he can deal with it.

He takes you for granted, he is playing the game very well.

Where is dad in this?