No

[NoNoNoNo2025]

It's all I hear from DS since he turned 13.
No.
No.
No.
Come on it's time to get up now, you need to get ready for school.
No.
Come on get dressed or you'll be late.
No.
Please get changed out of your uniform after school to keep it clean.
No.
Please get ready for your club now, it's time to leave soon.
No.
Can you do your homework please.
No.
Time to go up to bed now.
No.
Come on, lights out now.
No.
You haven't eaten any of the vegetables, can you eat some veg.
No.
You need a shower/hair wash, can you shower today please.
No.
I mean, how do you parent this?
DS was completely compliant and obedient and perfectly happy to follow routine requests for the first 12 years of his life.
This is a sudden change since 13.
It's exhausting.
It impacts on the running of family life on a daily basis.
I am spending so long dealing with this behaviour because when he says no I have to then reiterate to him that he NEEDS to do x y or z because if he doesn't then x y or z will or won't happen. Still he says no. Then I immediately get stressed because his refusal to do things blocks the running time of what needs to be done. And it blocks me ftom being able to get on with things I need to do because of the time I then need to spend on managing this defiant behaviour.
Sanctions don't work.
I took his phone away for 5 days and during the time without it he told me he was really enjoying not having his phone and thanked me!
So next time I switched tactic and said right you're not allowed out with your friends for a whole week for constantly refusing what I'm asking you to do and during that week he said he was really enjoying not going out with friends after school and being at home more and thanked me again!
I took the PlayStation away for a week another time and he said he enjoyed it because it made him do other things instead of playing on a screen!
I can't think of any other sanctions.
I've looked at PDA but he never did this until age 13. Surely you can't suddenly develop PDA after 13 years? He never ever defied or opposed me before now.
It's really getting me down and it's affecting our relationship. We've always been so close and loving with each other. We are still close and loving. But his "No no no" to every basic request is really stressful and difficult to deal with and it's upsetting me.
AIBU?
Is this normal teenage behaviour?
I've tried several times leaving him to it and have stopped asking him to do things he needs to do, and it completely backfires. He just doesn't do any of the things he needs to do. This then makes him late for school which in turn makes me late for work and I get spoken to by my boss. Or he doesn't get ready for his club which makes him arrive late and then I get spoken to about it by the club. Or he doesn't go to bed or switch his light off which makes him unmanageable with tiredness the next morning. So dropping the requests and leaving him to get on with things doesn't work because he simply doesn't do them.

Well, if you had cut his balls off before they woke up, you wouldn’t be in this position. However, that’s never an answer (my tongue is my cheek here, people, just so you know).

Honestly, this happens. And his brain and his body are going to go through so many changes in the next three years that everything you thought you had bedded down and ingrained is just smothered.

So, I found I would just repeat in my head the word “inexorable “ and I would just work on being inexorable in what I wanted done. Shouts, screams, tanties, ignoring, walkaways, I just kept on going. Sometimes more calmly than others. Sometimes less calmly. Sometimes I didn’t win and sometimes it took gin to keep me going. But the light at the end of my tunnel is burning very brightly these days.

How is the relationship with his father?

I haven’t got much advice but can empathise as we are going through similar with DD14 and DD13 😔. There’s been good advice so far and what Fourelementary says makes sense.
I would say him thanking you for taking the phone/playstation did make me chuckle… he is a clever kid!

What would happen if I don't ask him to get ready for his club? He simply wouldn't get ready. He'd miss it. Yet he says he wants to keep going

In which case he should miss it. Those are the consequences of him not getting ready.

I teach piano and a 13 year old boy was doing exactly the same thing yesterday, saying no to everything. It was so annoying after just 15 minutes so I really sympathize with you having to go through this. His mother said he'd started doing this over the last two weeks and she can't do anything with him.
So I said to him that if he is going to say no to everything during his piano lessons and refuse to do anything then he'll have to stop unfortunately and won't be able to continue in September. I explained I have a waiting list of potential students who want to come to piano and won't refuse to do anything and say no to everything.
I said I'd give him a few minutes to think about that and when I came back I asked if he wanted to continue and he said yes so we continued the lesson and he can stay on in September. Will be interesting to see what happens next week but if he does continue with the no thing I will stop the lessons at the end of term (and his mother knows this and is on board with it).

It's obviously much more difficult for you and so exhausting because he's saying no to everything but I think you can let some things follow their natural consequences and he might learn from that, eg. the club

I took his phone away for 5 days and during the time without it he told me he was really enjoying not having his phone and thanked me!
So next time I switched tactic and said right you're not allowed out with your friends for a whole week for constantly refusing what I'm asking you to do and during that week he said he was really enjoying not going out with friends after school and being at home more and thanked me again!
I took the PlayStation away for a week another time and he said he enjoyed it because it made him do other things instead of playing on a screen!
I can't think of any other sanctions.

You can ignore all of this. He's just trying to make you believe that those things are not sanctions/punishment by rephrasing it as a positive. However, I don't believe that he enjoys not going out with friends, not having a phone and not having the playstation so keep using these sanctions no matter what he says.

And maybe decide which things you let go eg. the fruit and vegetables. Yes, it's not ideal but if he refuses to eat them he doesn't get anything else instead. So he can eat whatever else is served at the meal and if he's still hungry later on he can have a piece of fruit but if he refuses the fruit he can't then go and get snacks or sweets or something.

Totally agree. We have notice when we are hearing our teens out and respecting their wishes boundaries. It's not a one-sided relationship, and they are teens. They are building independence, going through rough emotions, tons of pressure from authorities...

I think say to him you’ll only police getting to school, the rest is on him. He can be smelly or get a detention for not doing homework, he’ll survive eating poorly.
Clubs are a privilege if he doesn’t get ready you don’t pay for it.
Don't chase anything other than getting up and ready for school.

The only thing I would be hot on is attending school, he can learn the consequences for other things. Homework not done? He gets detention, or bad behaviour points. Not showering? His friends will soon tell him he stinks. (Teenagers are not known for their sensitivity). Not going to his club? Then he’ll miss out, let the club leaders deal with him. Not eating fruit and veg? Fine, but no chocolate/ice cream/sweet treat for dessert.

Early teen years is a time for pushing boundaries and wanting independence, and that’s fine, but it’s also the best time they learn to think for themselves and deal with the consequences when they don’t make the best choices.

Do you think he's maybe wanting some independence and feels a bit like you're micro managing him? I'd dial right back on what I was asking him to do tbh. I'd not be forcing a 13 year old to eat veg for example.

Yeah, he's not a toddler! 13 year olds can do most things for themselves, if you let them get on with it. Might take a while if he's used to you prompting him before he does anything, but it sounds overdue.

Also, have you tried being humourous with him rather than nagging?

Did you actually believe the stuff about enjoying not having his phone or going out with friends..? For some outlier kids that might not be a negative but the vast majority, it absolutely would be, no matter what they say.

I would dial right back on the things I'm instructing him to do: the veg, the change of clothes, homework even. He needs to do it but if you do or don't remind him to do it and he doesn't, the consequences are his not yours. Likewise if he's late for school, it's his detention. He has to bear the consequences of his actions. If he's late for the club, he might get spoken to by the leader or asked to leave. That's his issue to deal with. If he doesn't shower often enough, other kids will tell him he stinks. His problem!

I'm told their brains at this age are reformulating soup so some disruption to normal services may be expected. So I'd be supportive in reminding him about things he needs to do if he appears to have forgotten. If he's choosing not to co-operate, that's on him. And I agree with using humour where possible, they can be utterly maddening but if you stay bright and cheerful it'll really wind them up even through gritted teeth, it'll help get you through this awful phase.

Thanks everyone, some really great advice.
To reply to a few points -
I mean the missing the sport club if not ready is a sticking point for me because it's me that bloody well pays for it and the way the club runs is that I have to block book/pay for a term in advance. So if I just leave him to it and he misses the club, that's money down the drain and I work an extra few hours every week to pay for his clubs. So I do take issue with that and I really don't want to just let him miss them, because I've advance paid for them!
OK the fruit and veg I'll ditch and see if he develops scurvy.
As for him thanking me for removing his phone, social life, games console, he really was unruffled by that. I mean, he was smiling the most calm, gentle smile, gazing at me right in the eye whilst thanking me in the most easy going, relaxed and most charming way possible for improving his quality of life. He even said "You know what mum, I'm enjoying not having phone/going out with friends/playing on PlayStation so much since you took them away, that I've been reflecting on this and I might even do it myself from time to time, I'm enjoying it that much." All delivered with an air of nonchalance.
With regard to homework, I have at times give up getting him to do it and have left him to it. He hasn't done it. He's had detentions for it. These don't seem to ruffle him. His school policy is a 15 minute detention at the start of lunch for not doing homework, where they get made to do their homework for 15 minutes. Aftet the most recent homework detention, he told me "It's alright TBH, I just sit and do a bit of maths for 15 minutes at lunch with about 50 other kids who missed their homework too and then I get let out and I go back on the field. It's pretty chill to be fair." So ok I can start not bothering to motivate him to do homework. But meanwhile I already get about 5 emails a week from school telling me that I signed a school agreement when he joined which said I would support him and the school with homework. They email me constantly about this, going on about the importance of me supporting with homework. And the thing is I do want him to do it. I want him to learn. So that's a hard one to let go of. He doesn't see how important this is for his ability to pass exams. However I do.
As for being left to arrive late to school, it's me who will get it in the neck from school if he's late consistently. And it need him out the house so that I can go to work. I don't want to leave him as the last person in the house whilst I drive off for the day; I've got no confidence in his ability to ensure house security.
A couple of people have asked about using humour and others have asked about dad. Well DH (dad) leaves the house at 6am and returns at 9pm. He's not around to deal with anything in the week. But at weekends he tackles it by using humour, always humour. I've seen it work quite well with DS actually. I don't feel very humerous when I'm dealing with no no no no no no no all week long though, so I don't think it's a tactic I could employ.

I totally get not finding it funny when it’s you thats doing the parenting and DH wafts in over the weekend being the jolly one - that would annoy me.

i guess does your pestering work? If it does maybe you’re doing better than you think? And I can see maybe letting up on home work and him face the consequences isn’t actually working…

I get you with the clubs but I'd probably be telling him that I wouldn't pay for the next term if he won't get ready to go.
Nobody is advocating ditching fruit and veg but just saying don't get into a battle over it. Put some on his plate and make no further comment.
I personally would continue the battle over getting him into school because I'd feel the same as you and not want to go to work and leave him there.
He does sounds like a cocky little sod with his comments about detention and his playstation. I'd play along tbh. 'seen as you enjoyed it so much, we're going to have a digital detox every Friday night son..we can all play board games and enjoy being off screens'. I think he's enjoying winding you up and getting a rise off you.

This is what teens do.

with the clubs, I get you pay for it and want him to go.

can he get there on his own? If so stop taking him and arrange for him to go on his own.

teens really do not respond well to being micromanaged and nagged and you’ve got a few more years of this.

homework and getting to school, yes those are worth nagging about.

Blimey, your life seems like one long tight schedule, has he got any agency or free time each day? Do you have fun and a giggle each day? He seems to be trying to have some control as a direct result of something. All behaviour is communication, so what’s he trying to convay? Start by rebuilding your bond, give him positive 1:1 time doing something he wants to do, have a laugh, make him feel valued and listened to. When he says no, acknowledge that he doesn’t want to do something and briefly say what you need him to do and why. Work out which issues are worth/not worth the stress.

I’d pass this over to DH.

DH can have a sit down with him and say “you’re not getting up for your mum in the morning and it’s making her late for work, so for the rest of this week, you’re getting up at 5:30am with me and leaving the house at 6am when I do and walking to school and waiting outside until it opens. You can do your homework while you wait, so mum doesn’t have to nag you about that either.”

DH will stop being “fun dad” when he’s being dicked about in the morning. The teen won’t like having to be in bed early for his early start, nor will he want to get up at half 5, and I’m sure you won’t have to do it for long until he promises to get up on time for you.

With regards to meals. He’s 13, he can cook his own, which means coming to the supermarket with you at the weekend, shopping for the ingredients (to a budget) and he can cook every night. He’s more likely to eat something he’s made himself, and you want proper meals that are healthy too, none of this microwave meal crap. If he won’t shop with you, his dad can take him.

Then for his clubs, the next time he doesn’t want to go, say “thank god for that. I’m going to cancel your membership and drop down my hours at work, it’ll save me a fortune and means I don’t have to work as hard either.”

Give him a term or two and he’ll be asking you to rejoin his clubs, and if he doesn’t the. He wasn’t that bothered about them in the first place.

So agree with pp, just tell him you won’t pay for the clubs any more. Collect digital screens every Friday night. Limit what food is available so if he doesn’t eat what you make there’s no alternative. You are really nice to him, just stop being so accommodating to him. At the moment he sees you as his personal facilitator.

So...his plan did work then? Have you ever confiscated his phone since that time he thanked you?

Talk to the school and ask them what you should do when he refuses homework.

Why can't he walk to school? Why do you need to drop him off?

If he's missing a club, fock his pocket money. Tell him you paid £x for the week for him to go, and if he's choosing not to go he has to pay a certain amount back.

I agree with others and also totally understand where you are. I'm an SP so it's just me and it is draining but assuming this is just normal teen nonsense and not a lot else then yes, club..if he misses more than one due to not being arsed, cancel it. No veg and fruit, fine, but no crisps or cake in the house, ask school to ramp up the response to no homework..if he's a repeat offender they ought to be doing this anyway. I teach teens as well as having my own. Mine are perfect in school but one will not work at home. Ask school to put him on report, use up more if his free time, whatever. Work with them and make it very clear you are bothered about this. And make Dad responsible at weekends for getting him to do it too. He can't just opt out.

The fact you say he was completely compliant and obedient up til now is not necessarily a good thing. He’s rebelling against all that now which is fairly normal. Is he the same with his Dad if he’s around?

You need to engage natural and logical consequences and not let him play you.

"Since you have found it so good to not have your phone, I'll hold onto it for another week."

Otherwise, he doesn't get ready for club, he doesn't go. He gets kicked off the team, too bad. He won't get ready, why should you work extra hours to afford it? Don't. He doesn't do homework? He gets in trouble. School emails you about it? "I'm sorry but he is flat our refusing to do it. How do you suggest I make him?" Then they can deal with him.

You do have to persist on getting him to school but won't shower and smells? His peers will sort that one out quickly.

Pick your battles and the only one I'd pick is that he must go to school.

Yes - the complete calm and nonchalance and thanking you for improving his quality of life by removing those terrible screens he’s ao
addicted to is the exact manipulation tactic I described. I mean, double down on falling for it if you like but I’ve seen first hand kids laughing about how well this works to ensure this particular punishment isn’t used in future.

I'd call his bluff and keep the devices. Bonus if he's learning these tactics online. (It does read like a script he's !earned.)

And turn it back on him. 'I'm so glad you don't want to go to the club any more. I can stop doing the extra hours to pay for it/can spend the money on [something nice for you].

And of course anything he asks for, unless it's essential for school, the answer is 'no'.

I think you have a very intelligent boy on your hands. Choose your battles carefully, speak to the school about the homework and his attitude to the 15 minutes, get them onside. If he’s late for the club it’s really his loss and see it that way and don’t pay for the next term and you except that if he’s late loses his place at the club that down to his actions. Have conversations with him when the 2 of you are in the car about the no situation, and get his view. Be top dog and pick your battles

I wouldn’t be late because he can’t ready for school. Leave him to it, and at 13 he is more than responsible for locking up for the day. Don’t pay for anymore sports clubs. If he can’t get ready and it causes hassle trying to get him ready then I would no way be paying for another block. Let him face consequences at work for being late. I’d be sending him to bed earlier and earlier if he wouldn’t get up. I’d still take his phone etc as he’s probably playing you, thinking if you think he enjoyed the punishment you won’t take it again.

@NoNoNoNo2025 why did he get his phone and PlayStation back?